Picked this up recently. First project truck, first Model T in my life, surely not the last. It's a 1924 TT, pretty rough but it'll be a good learning experience for me. Had a C-Cab on it, missing the top and rusted to hell, and came with an extra closed cab in pretty good shape. I drove it onto the trailer, and from the street into my yard, but didn't drive it around on the road at all. I'm not sure how far I want to go with it in terms of restoration, I don't want it to be in pieces for a year without getting to drive it first. I am also teaching myself mechanics with it so it'll be a while until I'm able to tear apart and fix everything in a timely matter while doing a good job.
Sean, welcome fellow TT owner - very cool truck. Good luck and have fun. Have not had mine out of my neighborhood yet, but next year look out :-)Working on mine and hopefully learning as I go, your not alone. Hope you git a big kick out of it. I do, mines been in my backyard more than five years now. I go out and start it sometimes and it always puts a smile on my face.
Here we go...
You've got a little bit of a mixed bag there. The "extra" cab is from a later model - it has the fuel tank in a different place among other changes that took place on the "improved" Ford for '26 and '27. Not to say you couldn't make it work, but you may need to do some serious adapting. What fun!
I'd say I have my hands full, this is the first car I've worked on and the only guidance i have is books, this forum, and good old first hand experience. How is the fuel tank in a different spot? I haven't looked to closely but it seems like the closed cab has the same compartment under the seat as the c-cab had.
Sean all truck gas tanks are under the seat
I hear water pumps aren't all the rage, would it be wise to go back to the original cooling system and ditch my water pump?
If it is an original water pump from the 1920's, it WILL leak. The only one that really does not leak is the Texas T Parts device, but it looks modern and costs serious $$$. My coupe has run for years without a pump, but the car has a good radiator.
Is that an early adjustable throttle rod I see, or a bunch of caked on grease?
Looks like the ear on the pan is broken (last photo).
Anybody else see that or is it an optical illusion created by all the dirt and grease?
Sean, to answer your question directly: Yes, ditch the water pump. All it does to the stock cooling system is introduce superfluous complexity. Obviously this is a project, not a vehicle you just clean up and drive. Part of the project should be cleaning out all the water passages and the radiator. If overheating turns out to be a problem after that, the answer is a new or recored radiator. This is because after ninety years of vibration the cooling fins lose contact with the tubes and don't cool. When that happens the only cure is replacement.
Some people have a distributor because it came with the vehicle. Some have it because they think (or assume) that it's better than the Ford ignition system. Some stick with it to save the cost of converting back. That's perfectly OK if it's your preference. Others will point out that the stock electrical system is fine if properly maintained, and some will go so far as to claim that the Ford system is an essential feature in the character of a real Model T, something unique that makes it different from other cars. Whatever. That's up to you.
I should warn you that these things tend to multiply. It's common to start with a project, like I did, and eventually come to the realization that you don't want to wait for years to have a running T. That's when you shop for a driver to enjoy while you work on the project.
I don't remember if I gave you this link for the new T owner before, so here it is in case I didn't:
The ttp pump may not leak but the one I have didnt pump. As a matter of fact it made the water go back into the radiator. I pulled the pump and used a drill motor and watched the water go backwards. Jim Drumm bought the pump new and never got a response from ttp.Jim called it a hot water pipe. So maybe that why water pumps get a bad name. Scott
Steve, thank you for the advice, much appreciated. As of now I'm going the penny pinching route, I don't plan on restoring down to the last nut and bolt so I will probably keep the distributor for now, since its already on there. As for the water pump, I will most likely take it out to stay clear of any headaches. I'm not sure how well my radiator performs at the moment, I've only had it running for no more than 10 minutes at a time, but the fins are in bad shape so I assume replacement will be the way to go. I will be making some of my own parts, and a lot of it will not be stock so I don't mean to offend anyone, I just want to get it running and use it as a work truck, sleep on the back and to haul my little boat around. It WILL get scratched, but not abused.
And lastly, I appreciate the warning about multiplication. I have made myself well aware of this and I am very ok with it. I want a car next, but I can't decide if I want a T sedan, or an A sedan. I'm going to drive it a whole lot so to my knowledge an A would be more practical for long distance and a little faster driving. Not to say T's can't go fast...
John, I don't mean to contradict you, especially since you probably know many times more than I do about the subject.
Looking at the pictures, I see the vehicle as it arrived, had the fuel tank under the seat, or somewhere. It USED to have the coil box inside the cab, as shown by the no-longer-used insulators sticking through the firewall. So it couldn't have the fuel tank above the driver's feet, as in the '27 and '27 cars.
The "extra" body, which is clearly for the cab of some kind of truck, has a 'door' in the cowling, and a second firewall further back. As far as I have ever known, that meant the fuel tank was there. That also meant the coil box was engine-mounted.
Again, I don't mean to contradict, and I could be wrong, but I'm seeing different bodies here. Please educate me.
The door on the closed cab is just for a vent, I am almost positive. The compartment in the seat for the closed cab is the same as the earlier cab, and fits right over the gas tank mounted on the frame.
The Improved T's of the 1926 and 1927 model year had the fuel tank relocated under the dash, EXCEPT the Fordor and TT. The fuel tank remained under the seat for the Fordor and the TT.
My '27 depot hack uses the entire '27 cowl ("T" cowl,...NOT "TT") including the original '27 windshield posts and windshield. Located in the top center of the cowl, exactly as in your closed cab, is the same rectangular opening with a hinged cover that has a little finger tab on the front edge for opening. Located in the center of this opening in the cowl is the gasoline cap on a very short filler neck. It might be noted that there is no ventilation feature connected with that opening at all; it is just for access to the gasoline tank filler pipe cap,....for what it's worth,.......harold
Ed - Hmmmm,.....Now that I read your post and "re-read" mine, I don't think I have contributed anything of value to Sean's post here at all! Interesting discussion tho',.....harold
Harold, my Hack uses a Fordor cowl, because it is what I had. I sometimes wish I had used a Tudor/Coupe, or open car cowl, so I could fill up without lifting the seat. But it does "sort of" match my Fordor.
I just passed up buying a "TT ventilation door" on ebay, it was hinged and had a handle extending into the inside under the dash so it could be opened from inside.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-TT-Ford-Closed-Cab-Vent-Door-/230885031583?item=23 0885031583&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123&nma=true&si=r8GPJV8fUAbonCLfG vQ9Fh4Lfjs%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
TT trucks were different than most '26/'27 T cars. Ford-built cabs (with arguable very rare exceptions) were limited to the TT C-cab from 1924 through at least 1926, and the enclosed cab which went from 1925 through the end of production in 1927. Both had minor changes between 1925 and 1926. Both used the gasoline tank under the seat throughout, and most, if not all enclosed cabs, had a cowl vent (not a gas filler door).
I don't see doors for the enclosed cab. Another good option for trucks, is to build a good wood cab. a good scrounge, like myself, can build a nice one for about a hundred bucks and make it look right.
The reason I bring this up, is that if you do not have those doors, they are the most valuable (read that as expensive) part of a Ford-built steel cab. If you are on a tight budget, I read that above, you have many good options. You could begin restoring the steel cab, use it without doors, and plan (or hope) to get doors later. The steel cabs never look "vintage" good without the doors (they end up looking too "Grapes of Wrath"). The silly part is that many of the wood cabs built in the '10s and '20s did not have doors at all (some did). Prior to 1924, MOST TT trucks had wood cabs, and they varied a lot, from a simple seat to extremely elaborate. After-market wood cabs were still available, and used, until the end of model T production. But by 1925, they became much less common for new trucks because the Ford cab was so cheap.
Both the incomplete Ford cabs have some value. Even though what you have is usually the easy part to find, often people with more complete cabs need parts better than what they have. So one of the many options you have would be to sell one or both of your cabs to finance other parts or work your truck may need.
Just some ideas for you to consider. Model Ts, including TTs, are fun, and help to connect you to history. Chances are good that your truck could be running all over town by springtime. What you make of it is up to you. This forum is the best place to get model T questions answered. Have fun, and welcome to the affliction!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
In the beginning when I first brought it home, I was planning on selling off the cab and building a wooden one, like you suggested, so that I could make some money back. I had a friend come over who has a lot of knowledge and he told me most of the value I had was in the cab and he advised to keep it if I wanted to make back more money if I ever sell it. I just don't know from lack of experience if a home built cab by a beginner woodworker/mechanic would be much of a resale value in case I ever do part with it, although if I put aside the idea of its worth, building a custom cab does sound like fun. Anyway, it's all just experience for me right now, and at this point I was thinking of just sticking with the closed cab, and building some wooden doors and floorboards for it.
How much do the closed cabs go for anyway? Minus doors and roofing, like mine.
Sean, I used to own a closed cab TT and built a set of doors from wood for mine. I had the original doors to use as patterns and eventually restored them.
The trick is that the doors are curved on the outside to correspond with the curve of the body.I used hardwood for the frames ans spars under thin plywood to shape the outer skins. The inner skins are flat so that was no problem.
I would hang onto that cab as it is in very good condition and making doors would be a lot easier than building a whole body.(see pic w/ wood doors)
Closed cab doors are kind of hard to find, alot of farmers and business men took them off and discarded them as it took to much time to open and close them.....thats just what I was told, probably no facts there.
I presently have a drivers door for sale, has latch frozen w/rust, inside handle is there as well as all trim 400.00 plus truck freight or pick-up here, new lower patch panel will go w/it, needs a small amount of fixing firstname.lastname@example.org, I also sell the wood that goes in the top,(bows) and the four pcs that surround the steel cab
John S., those doors look good, at least from what I can tell in the picture. Did people hate driving behind you out on the road?
Kevin, I have heard the same thing, I wouldn't be surprised to find some doors either rotted out in a creek or hiding in a barn somewhere in unused condition.
John D., thanks for the offer but I can't bring myself to pay that much for a door, I would probably think differently if I was trying to do a complete restoration but I don't want to spend more than I have to on my purpose truck.
I think wooden half-doors would be neat, with some canvas curtains/clear window sewn in for foul weather purposes.
Sean, that was the day I drove that beauty from Sacramento to Half Moon Bay. We took the route through the delta (and yes Concord) across the old Dumbarton Bridge through Palo Alto to HMB. Filled up once in Hayward. Very slowly but very fun!
Wow that's great, I wish I had this truck in a more rural area, I'm not so excited to drive it in Concord with all the traffic. People around here just won't appreciate what I'm driving because they want to get back home from work to turn on their big screen, not look at some old piece of junk truck. What was your fuel "economy," about 10mpg? Top speed under 25?
Sean, I had a high speed gear set with a truck Ruxtel. As I recall we were able to do 30-35 on the flat. The mileage was about 12-15 MPG... but that was 1974 and gas was tight but still cheap. I bought the truck from the original owner in 1962 for $50.00. I sold the truck in '76 when My daughter was born. She is a wonderful gal, but I sure wish I still had that truck!
Sean, their making high speed gears now - expensive but good. Also every once in a while they turn up at the swap meets. At the last Long Beach swap, Scott had a really good set for I think 300 bucks! was a heck of a deal for someone.Most of them are really worn out though. John, that sounded like an awesome trip and a cool truck - looks like an old Honda in the back too - cool!
Yeah I've heard those gears can be pretty expensive, I saw that someone was making them for a while and selling them for around $600, but I don't know if that's still going on. I'll be going to the Turlock swap meet so maybe a set will find me while I'm there. I've been told it's possible I could have them already but I haven't driven it anymore than into my driveway so I don't know.
Sean - The same guy that made the high speed gears and sold them for around $600.00 awhile back, has now made a new batch and is now selling them for $1,380.00.
Holy crap, that's more than half of what I paid for my truck in the first place!
This, I have never tried, nor do I personally know anyone that has. I have seen a few original setups and therefore know it was done.
It is a thing sometimes called a "poor-man's overdrive".
Almost any regular three speed manual transmission can be used. Remove first and reverse gears, block off some of the un-needed shifting mechanism, and install backwards. A regular overdrive is usually about 20% to 30% over. This setup is usually around 90% to sometimes 100% over. Your common, good, about seven to one TT worm gear is stepped up to about four to one final ratio or even a little higher. A good gear range for a TT truck.
The mechanical downside. Gear trains under load work much more efficiently while gearing down than gearing up. A nearly one to two overdrive is pretty steep. But they did and do work.
Years ago, the favorite transmission to use was the pre1928 Chevrolet transmission. One end is open, but easily adapted to a T using parts of another Chevy tranny, or a few T parts. The other end will bolt up to a T engine or rear end with very little modification. The input and output shafts of the Chevy tranny are square as are a T.
Good Chevrolet transmissions are getting a little difficult to come by, but they do show up at swap meets and eBad. With two of the four-bolt bell connector ends, modification into a T is easy. So even a bad one has some parts value.
Just another consideration for the necessarily budget minded. Not the best solution, just maybe an affordable one. I have been threatening to try one for years, just haven't had the right car or truck for it.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
My std gear TT cruises at about 15 with a top speed of about 17. Much more than that burns main bearing caps! I've got a high speed ring and worm and a Warford for it, just not got around to installing it yet. One of the vendors sells TT C-cab parts--looks like you had most of the more expensive C-cab parts already.
I forgot to mention, I rebuilt everything on my TT but the cab and bed in 1978. I put the bed on it with the cab lying on its back on the bed, and didn't take it off until 1999. I built a seat to go around and over the gas tank and put a lot of miles on it while carrying my cab. So, you don't need to have a cab to have fun!
Sean, TT,s have two ratios. 7.25 and 5.17 I have the 5.17 and can do 43 mph with a almost stock motor. I get around 14 to 16 miles per gallon. The 5.17 has 6 teeth on the worm and the 7.25 has 4 Having a truck is great as you can take everything you want. Scott
There seems to be a very wide range of speeds people are getting. Both with and without high speed gears.
Looks like a great Winter Project ...
AND it runs .....
Jim, that A Model on your profile looks great! That looks like exactly what i'm looking for, for my next vehicle.
Thistruck sits along side the Highway going into Leavenworth, Washington. Yard Art at a fruit stand.
The truck above still had its coils in the coil box, a motor and an NH Carburetor. It looked like a little work and some tires you could drive it away.
Are you telling me I should get it?
If you are talking about the yard art at the fruit stand, I would guess hat they might not sell any of it.
I give up
"It looked like a little work and some tires you could drive it away."
This just made me think you were trying to hint at it.
Goodbye beat up radiator, goodbye water pump.
Thanks for the "new" radiator Henry!