Hi all I am putting a set of 1911-16 firewall brackets on a 1923-25? frame and need to know where to drill the new holes. Thanks in advance. Kyle Augustin
Phil, Thanks for pics, that should save a few headaches trying to locate the firewall for this speedster I am building. Kyle Augustin
Correct me if I am wrong but don't those holes come drilled on every 23 - 24 frame? I am under the impression that frames made up to 1925 model year should have all the holes necessary to fit any Model T back to about 1912.
Royce- I am guessing that the holes for the early firewall brackets were discontinued during the 1921-22 period. I've just checked a few frames which seem to bear this out. As with all things Model T, one must assume a certain amount of carryover so precise dating is all but impossible.
First frame is probably a 1921. It has the holes for the '11-16 firewall brackets, both sets of holes (for the pressed steel or forged) runningboard irons as well as all the other holes one would expect to find for the electrical equipment. This frame does not have the oil holes for the handbrake/controller shaft brackets. See encyclopedia for 1921 models, entry for April 1 (Acc. 575, Box 14, #832).
Second frame is the original from a Centerdoor sedan with engine assembly date of 3/24/22. This frame does not have the holes for the early firewall brackets, nor does it have the oil holes for the controller shaft brackets.
Both the above frames have the round hole for the forward hood clip, indicating use with the low hood. See: see entry for Mar. 27
Third frame is probably a '24, and it does not have the holes for the early firewall brackets. This frame uses the 4-rivet handbrake quadrant and the oil holes for the handbrake/controller shaft brakets have been reinstated.
Finally, a 1925 frame also does not have the holes for the early firewall brackets. This has the 2-rivet handbrake quadrant and also has the reinstated oil holes for the handbrake/controller shaft brackets.
The third and fourth frames above do not have the four sets of 3 holes on the sides of the frame rails for the early forged runningboard irons; both have the elongated forward hood clip holes.
Interesting Phil. I have the makings of a T chassis here and the parts, while all came from a single car, must have been a mixture. The engine was a late '24 so I assumed that the frame might be the same. It has the folded metal running board brackets but has holes for the forged brackets, as well as all the holes for early hood shelves and the 11 - 14 cowl brackets.
After reading what you say it could be that the frame is somewhat earlier. Like all things Model T it could have been made earlier and used later, what with millions of Ts being made and parts being transported and stored at various locations.
Thanks for looking!
Not to steal the thread but, do you happen to have the measurements for the Early 23 low steel firewall brackets on the frame. My mock up frame doesn't have holes for it and need to mount the low firewall someway. Thanks - Matt
This may be a little confusing because they show two different sides of the frame. There is a large weld directly over these holes on the right side of the frame so a distance from the top would be all but impossible to measure. Keep in mind this is yardstick accuracy.
If your frame does not have these holes, it is a pre-1917 frame. I'd think about making some custom brackets to mount the steel firewall instead of drilling an early frame.
Phil, Thanks for the photos. I thought about making some simple brackets out of flat stock to bolt to the top of the frame and the steel firewall. I was thinking the same thing about not drilling any other holes since I'm only using it to mock up the body and that someone else may be in need of one someday. My running gear for the speedster is an early 23 chassis with the low steel firewall. Would you happen to have a measurement from the front of the frame back to the front of the steel firewall for a 23 as well as how far off the frame the firewall sits? Thanks. Matt
The fore-aft dimension shown in the Service Bulletin for both high radiator and low radiator models is the same. This is the later picture - it is a bit more clear than the earlier ones. Note that it is from the front of the frame to the back of the firewall, and this would be the same whether you use a wood dash or steel dash.
I measured the installed firewall in a '22 Centerdoor. This has the body, hood and dash installed but no engine, so it was easy to get the measurement from the top of the frame rails. This should be close enough to get you started.
Phil, Thanks for the help. I think, I'm going to go ahead and buy a set of early firewall brackets. Do you know if they make wood firewalls for a 23 without the coil box holes. I plan on running the 26-27 coil box I have. Otherwise, I may just use the low metal firewall as a template. - Matt