Quoting from three ads in HMN:
"Ford 1923 Model T touring, 12v, distributor, hydraulic disc brakes, a real tour car, stock..."
"Ford 1925 Model T touring, one of the most original survivors to exist with low miles, the engine and chassis are matching numbers..."
"Ford 1927 Model T 4-door touring, total restoration, V860 engine and transmission..."
It's kind of sad that Hemmings doesn't have someone that knows better, editing their want ads to keep these kind of errors from happening. All this kind of stuff does is make Hemmings and their advertisers look ignorant. Although the guy with the '23 touring was doing alright until he added the word stock. And how do you know someone didn't take a pencil and right the engine number on the frame on the second one. And well there's not much help I can give the third guy with his total restoration. And, what is a V860 transmission. I've seen a V860 engine but...
the pun is that a 1925 never had a chassis number...
You need to re read the last ad, it says V860 engine....and transmission
I have seen ads for vehicles stating total restoration, all it needs is body work.
One of my favorites from Hemmings years ago was a car that was "Disassembled for your inspection". It's become one of my favorite phrases to describe cars.
I bought my "T's" from some very considerate sellers. They had disassembled them so I could see how much of the car was missing and how rusty it was. I'm not so considerate. If I sell the buyer takes as is--no disassembling. They are "preowned & lovingly maintained". :-)
Hey Gus, No I think I read it correctly. The guy makes it sound like it's got a V860 transmission in it. And really why even put the transmission in there anyway. Did it also have a V860 rear axle. And maybe it had a V860 steering wheel and seat in it too. At any rate It's probably not a restoration with a V8anything in it. Oh wait, I shouldn't say that, we might get into the whole what does restored mean. Oh what the heck, let's get it going again anyway.
Best wishes back at ya, Gus :-)
If he restored the car first and then decided to change out the engine to a V8 did the car become UN-restored?
I like the ads that say "runs good, excellent parade car".
My definition: Can't go over 10mph, overheats, has no brakes.
"Engine recently rebuilt".
Definition: Engine never been touched, ever.
(Maybe fresh spray paint.)
Definition: Roadster or Coupe, but never a touring or a sedan!
"Updated with new drive train"
Definition: Scrap metal that used to be a car.
Definition: Metallic green.
Definition: Re-used upholstery material taken from a remodelled Burger King.
What are some others favorites?
Dupont over haul
"Ran when parked" is always good
I have a totally original 1914 T Runabout with a Hydro Glide automatic transmission and 4 on the floor. I know the Necking Knob is not original. Do you mean it is not 100 % original after all??
I don't get Mike garrison's comment on the V8 60 transmission.
At least we know it does not have the V8 hooked up to the T transmission.
It has a transmission AND engine from a V8 60. What's wrong with that?
If it had a Volvo engine and transmission I would expect it to read "Volvo engine and transmission".
Maybe Mike didn't know the V8 60 powered cars had transmissions?????
1927 T Touring V860 And I would like it!
Dan, is that one of them super-rare after market V-8s that someone started a thread about last year? It's a beautiful thing.
Jeff, love the "Disassembled for your inspection". I'll have to remember that. One of my favorites I saw last a few years ago was, "Ran great at one time." Didn't they all? hahaha
I don't get the point of this post. How is it that some people feel they need to form a opinion on others in our model t hobby. For all the talk I hear from some people you would swear they would have a highly restored example of a T as it left the factory. Or even know what their talking about. Before they choose to point out others PETTY little issues.
Mike, humor comes from conflict.
There's just a bit of conflict in stating, "Ford 1923 Model T touring, 12v, distributor, hydraulic disc brakes, a real tour car," and then adding the descriptor, "stock" .
From where I sit, that's humorous. Would I go over and harrangue the guy for posting such an obvious faux pax? No, but I would and do give them a gentle poke and a chuckle from time to time.
When I worked for a railcar rebuilding company (decades ago, so now the tail can be told), we talked about "FWS" jobs--"Fixed with Stencil." Railroad car repairs or maintenance are date stenciled on parts & that determines when the next inspection should be, so "fixed with stencil!"
When the shop shut down, there was a "hospital train" of historic railcars sent on the mainline to a railroad museum, some 8 hours away, and trust me, many cars in that train were "fixed with stencil!" The shop guys knew they could all make the trip, but many parts were outdated, so that was the route taken. Train made the trip just fine too! I was even drafted to act like a railroad car inspector--that part bothered me a bit, but I did want to save the history, rather than have it relegated to a scrapper (the only other option).
Just thought I'd point out that "definitions" are in other hobbies too!
--Oh, one more; "Mint in Box" does that mean a boxed mint comes with the part?
Geez Aaron, what's that all about? After all doesn't it just make sense that if it's got a v860 engine it would have a compatible transmission too? It just struck me as odd that the guy felt it was necessary to tell us it did. I was just having a little fun with Steves original post. I kind of got a chuckle out of it. I didn't mean to do anything to you that I thought would cause you or anyone else to come after me and insult my intelligence.
Jerry I really like your post. There's some pretty good laughs in there.
Danial is correct. "Humor comes from conflict". Remember that the next time your elbow comes in conflict with the corner of the door. The "funny bone" is properly known as the humerus.
Conflict is also a difference in "point of view". It always has been.
When considering the "humor" in the representation of of an item for sale. Something such as "All original, fully restored with many upgrades" is a lot of conflicting points of view. And eBad becomes "comedy central".
Daniel - V O, No, that V8 is a common mid to late '30s Ford 60hp V8 engine with its matching transmission. They are small enough that a few have been put into late Ts leaving most of the rest of the car to look model T. (As long as you do not know what you are looking at or look very close) Usually they also have model A front and rear axles with '40s Ford brakes. If you look closely at one of those photos, you can see the front axle and brakes. Also, note that the wheels are 21 inch model A wheels.
Mike G, good to see you here!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
And Aaron, I have known you for many years now. So please know that I am joshing you when I say "lighten up!"
1923 Model T, rare, $34,000
1919 Model T, out standing in its field
1930 Model T Tudor Sedan
Ah, thanks for the clarification Wayne. I'm always learning here - that's why I love this place, even when Mike Garrison's posting..hahaha JUST KIDDING MIKE! haha
(ducks and covers)
It looks to have model A pedals (clutch and brake).
I would have wondered if it had a model A transmission too if he didn't say otherwise..
If I was doing one I would use a modern 4 or five speed as long as the car will be so far from stock anyway.
Lug nut covers?
Herb, “VERY OLD SCREW ON TYPE” even!
Hmmmmmmm!!!! As the overly sensitive member of this group I'd just like to interject that um ah I uh well... I think that I'm uh... Nevermind! I'll get back to you.
Lug nut covers?? I have a pair of those and was told they were mini ash trays. I got gipped again $
Mike thanks for you input.
Today, I was out cleaning the rust off of some rims. It reminded me of the many ads I have seen for "totally original, will need to be fully restored but there is absolutely no rust anywhere!" cars. In the photos, the car is totally brown with rust. What? They think it isn't rust unless the metal is gone?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I like to contribute when I can.
That's white car ism not a model T. I think you should not show a Dodge care here?
Wayne several years ago, (pre-craigslist) I called on an ad in the paper for a 50 Chevy pickup.
I asked the guy about rust and he said "Oh you know, typical for the age but not too bad."
I drove literally, 100 miles round trip, only to discover that the bed was rusted out so bad he had 2x4 boards holding the sides up off the bed so they wouldn't fall through and there was a hole big enough to stick my head through in the lower corner of the cab. Oh and one of the fenders was held on by coat hanger wire.
One of the rare times when I gave a seller a "what-fer". I was more than a bit cranky.
Danial, Been there. Done that. No wonder that we can't all agree on what the word "restoration" means. (Reference to a major discussion late last year)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Here's the barn.
Dan's post of the touring with the V860 in it seems to be a hybrid. The gear shift and pedals look as if they came from the V8. The speedometer looks like a Model A and the front mounted spare looks like a Model A except that the door won't open with it in that location. The car is very good looking and if you like modified cars, it would be a winner. But without a Model T block, it is really not a Model T. I don't know what the other two round gauges are, I would suspect oil pressure and temperature. I also don't see any parking brake lever so you would have to be very careful where you parked it so it won't roll away.
That V8 60 is my kind of hot rod! If I had time and money I would like one too.