External Brakes

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: External Brakes
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Foye on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 06:18 pm:

Any one know of external brakes for small drum (13 touring) that will fit with hasslers? I'm told rocky mountains won't and neither will disc brakes. Any ideas - besides taking off the hasslers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 06:57 pm:

I had a set of old Bonars on my 1913 about 15 years ago and they cleared the hasslers. They are not available, but I bet the AC bands will work. You can notch them if you need to.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop, San Diego on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 07:17 pm:

Matt,
I have external brakes (not Rocky Mtn) on my '17 as well as Hasslers, and they work fine. Don't know what brand, but they are metal bands with a brake lining material riveted to the band and fit over the drum. They connect to the brake pedal with a steel cable that can be adjusted.
I just relined the bands and put them back on and they work fine. I wish I knew what kind they were, but at least there is something out there that works with Hasslers. Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 07:40 pm:

I have seen many times on this forum that AC brake are still available but, I have never seen them advertised by the suppliers. Who makes them? I don't want a set I'm just curious.

Thanks,
Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 08:09 pm:

Larry Sidmore.

Check out the following link:
http://modelt.org/discus/messages/2/27217.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David R Barker on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 08:54 pm:

When the A-C brakes are installed, is the transmission brake disabled in any way, or do they both function, as with RM brakes? Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 09:15 pm:

Depends on how they are installed. I installed with cable instead of rods the same way they were sold back in the day. On a hard brake if set right you will in gauge the transmission brake too. Mine which are originals seam to work just fine with out using the transmission brake but if I loose cable fluid :-) I still have brakes. Using the cable setup lets you still use the internal parking brakes without a lot of work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop, San Diego on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 02:42 am:

David,
With mine (which sound like Mark's), the external brake is separate from the trans brake, and also separate from the parking brake. The idea is to adjust the external brake to stop the wheel just before the brake pedal actuates the trans brake (kind of a back-up system which takes the wear off the trans brake band). The parking brake functions separately also.
The trans brake works off the brake pedal band around the transmission drum, the external brake works off a lined band around the outside of the brake drum and connected to the brake pedal by a steel cable, and the parking brake works off a lined brake shoe within the brake drum connected by a rod from the brake shoe to the parking lever.
My problem right now is I removed the external brakes (don't know the brand), relined them with new brake lining riveted to the external band, but can't seem to get them adjusted properly. If I tighten the cable to the brake pedal enough, there doesn't seem to be any pedal travel left to tighten the external band and stop the wheels while driving.
I don't mean to hijack the thread Matt, but any help would be appreciated (Terry or Mark?).
Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wilf Bradbury on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 07:48 am:

I put a set of Larry Sidmore's on our 14 roadster and they work great. I used rods which look neat and are easy to adjust.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph A. Stearns on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 08:24 am:

Wilf, do you have a picture of your linkage set up ?? If not does someone have a diagram or picture they could post please. Thanks. Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 09:28 am:

Yes, I would like to see a rod setup as well. Probably easier to adjust than a cable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wilf Bradbury on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 10:53 am:

Dave,if u can wait until April, I'll get some pics and post them. The car is in storage for the winter and might be difficult to get at. Basically I built up a cross shaft similar to the emerg brake rod that runs across the frame. I welded a lever hanging down on each side, then connected 2 rods back to the brake assemblies. I didn't bother with an equalizer and had no trouble balancing the brakes. I simply jacked up the back end and adjusted the drag on each side until equal. this was done after braking/seating the linings by driving around a bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 12:45 pm:

Ok I think that I have enough pedal to still be using the transmission brake. I really don't have a way to check except a gut feeling that my brake pedal is about the same place on hard braking that it was before I installed the outside brakes.
The cable installation in my op is a lot easier then messing with that equalizer. Cable installation is about the same as parking brakes on a lot cars and trucks.
Bob, your new lining may need to get their set. The instructions for AC's is to have the brakes start activating when the pedal is about 5 inches from the floor. This may vary if you have a different body then standard.
I am using the original bracket that mount the pull rod to the pedal. It's a u shaped piece that fits the shaft just above the center line of the shaft. So how and when your brakes start activating may depend on the pull point. I think the higher above center the less the pedal travels to do the same job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 01:40 pm:

Bob, the new linings are probably thicker than the old ones. You may have to carefully bend the bands to fit better or somehow make a set-up to re-arc the linings. My bet is that you need to go through the settings shifting your lock nuts until you can get an adjustment which works.

Larry does not send installation instructions as he is selling the AC brakes for display purposes only. Any non-display use is at your own risk so you must understand their installation and adjustment thoroughly on your own.

I am installing a set of AC brakes on my 1913 project instead of going to discs, hydraulics, or large drum Rockys. I leave all three transmission bands functional, installed lined parking shoes, and have an interlock of the AC bands with the hand brake lever and the foot brake pedal. This is all good, but I have gone one step further; I have tossed out the stamped Ford wheel drums and turned a set of cast iron brake drums.

All of the above should work well in dry conditions. In puddles, river crossings, snow and rain all bets are off.

The next step to consider is adding front wheel brakes (I have additional raidius rod re-inforcement). Of course front brakes might make the car look a little non-stock... if that's not a problem then the large diameter Rockies are a better choice for the rears (as long as you never need brakes to hold on a steep uphill)!

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Foye on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 06:08 pm:

Bob, no worries about hi-jacking the thread. The more people read, the closer I get to finding the right brakes for me !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 12:01 pm:

And even more;
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/246936.html?1321237805


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 02:00 am:

here are some photos of my brakes and the parts to hook them up;
http://s1101.beta.photobucket.com/user/redmodelt/library/AC%20brakes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph A. Stearns on Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 07:21 am:

Mark--others, Thanks for the very good info and pictures--I will have to get busy--good winter project. Thanks again. Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop, San Diego on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 04:43 pm:

Thank you for the great responses about the AC brake adjustment (especially Terry, Mark, and Dan Treace). Dan's pictures showed a tension spring on the brake actuator,as Jack Darron had suggested on one of Mark's links. So I called Dave at Chaffin's and he said he had 1926-27 brake shoe springs (bigger) as tension springs on his, and they worked fine to keep the cable tight while not actuating the brake lever to the AC brakes and allowing more brake pedal travel. While he highly recommended Rocky Mtn brakes, since I'm so close to getting these adjusted and already have Hassler shocks which won't work with Rockies (Dave asked me "if I'd rather have Hasslers or stop?"), I'm going to try the tension springs to see if they're enough.
Thank you to everybody above, and sorry again Matt for hijacking part of the thread, altho this might help you make a decision.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop, San Diego on Monday, February 04, 2013 - 02:08 pm:

Hey Matt,
Way back in January you were asking about external brakes on the MTFCA forum that would fit with Hasslers. I mentioned that I had Sidmore's AC brakes (Larry Sidmore) that I was redoing, and would let you know when I finished how they worked.
Took me longer than expected to get to them, and several different orders from vendors to get the right parts, but I finished yesterday and they work great!
Relined the external bands with linings from Chaffin's, riveted them with a neat little riveting tool from Snyder's (fits in your vice and has tools for removing old rivets, countersinking rivets in the bands, and installing new rivets. Only $24). Get the rivets from Chaffin's. They're longer.
The best advice was to get '26-'27 brake shoe springs to keep the brake actuator lever from actuating as you tightened the cable to the brake pedal (mine has a cable instead of rods). That seemed to be the secret in getting them adjusted. They now work great. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Good luck and take care.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, February 04, 2013 - 02:36 pm:

I think you'll be happy with either the Ac or the Bennetts as both are similar. Probably the AC being the better of the two.
I have repop Bennetts on my '12 with wood wheels and modern linings on the E brake shoes. they work fine with the rods after taking time to get the adjustment tuned up.

Terry

I'd like to hear what ideas you might have for the front brakes.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration