A carburetor oddity

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: A carburetor oddity
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 01:47 pm:


I came across this Simmons amidst my auction plunder, and I wonder if anybody here has ever had one in working condition and tried it on a car. My guess is that the function of the heating element is to serve as an added complication that provides no benefit. Am I right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 02:01 pm:

Heating the vapor was done for the low grades of fuel, doubt it helped much, other than some S to the promoter:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 03:20 pm:

I wouldn't use it! Could be a fire hazard.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 03:27 pm:

Steve, that heating element came on simmons carbs, and is not a aftermarket add on. I have one myself and it has the same setup. My thoughts are as a straight thru carb it pulls more air and that coil helps the carb from freezing up as I notice this carb has a tendency to do. I love the simmons. It seems to have give more power than the standard NH and is a great carb in my opinion. I have never had mine wired up and always wondered if this helped with the cold starts and the icing problem. As the expert Maybe Uncle Stan chime in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 03:37 pm:

I'm getting in way over my head, but I have a question. I always thought in order to get the most power it is best to have a cool air/fuel mixture. The idea, I've been told, is that the air and fuel molecules shrink when cold and so you get more in the firing chamber. Wouldn't this item work contrary to that idea?

Even as I write this, I realize flaws in the idea as applied to a Model T, but I thought I'd ask anyhow....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 04:00 pm:

Henry - your right about a cold mix getting more fuel/air into the motor due to the density of the charge, but if the gas doesn't vaporize (stays a liquid) it doesn't go boom when it sees a spark and push the the piston down. A bit of heat helps the gas vaporize - If I remember right some of the older V8s had hot water flow thru the intake manifold to assist in vaporization.

Oh Ya - if a carb freezes up the the amount of charge is lessened because the passage way is smaller due to ice. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 04:15 pm:

almost all vehicles have a water passage through the manifold, a cold dense charge is more powerful, but not more efficient as your particles are larger.

this is why i run the hot air pipe on my T, i have a little less power but my economy doesnt suffer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 05:51 pm:

I have a hard time believing your carb is developing ice. How would you know? It is normal for a T carb / intake to sweat moisture on the outside of the manifold on humid days.

The Simmons carbs work very well Steve. I have one I use to troubleshoot other people's Model T's when they complain of "carburetor trouble". Nearly every case of "carburetor trouble" has had an electrical solution.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 07:44 pm:

Steve
I've seen many, owned several never used one.
I'd vote it as a gemmick after market wonder of it's time. Kind'a like the all night shows we have on TV now that sell all the (Great Stuff)
It might have been a much needed piece in it's day but my bet would be the ol'T would pulled way more CFM of air than that tiny little wire could heat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:06 pm:

Steve,

The Simmons carbs were sold through Western Auto IIRC. They are great carb's and are comparable to the straight through NH. I have had several and one of my running T's is equipped with one. It gets good mileage as well.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:14 pm:

Steve,

I have run several Simmons and have always removed the heater wire and sealed up the hole. I have no idea if the heater worked as I have never tried them for obvious reasons. The carb by itself is a good one and brings good prices at swap meets.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:29 pm:

So has anybody tried it with and without the heater working, and compared the results?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:35 pm:

from what i read somwhere, the simmons made more power on the dyno with the element installed. have no clue wether or not it was on, but i find it somwhat unbelieveable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:38 pm:

i would bet, if you lived in cold temperatures, like 25 and ower on a regular basis, if you had that heater on when you started fuel would get on it and vaporize aiding starting.

while running? i doubt it would do anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:40 pm:

Yea, but the test results were never tabulated.

Simmons carb heater coil sparked and....well.....you see.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:46 pm:

was that seriously from the heater coil?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 09:08 pm:

"I have a hard time believing your carb is developing ice."

Partial throttle cools the incoming air up to 70 degrees F. If the air is humid, ice can form.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 11:08 pm:

Every Morris Minor I ever worked on had one of those heat coils in between the carb and the intake manifold.
I was on all the time.
On the model T they were said to have been a great help getting the car started in sub-zero weather.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 11:24 pm:

I'm a huge fan of the Simmons carbs. They were also sold under the name Wizard. Once you set them up right, they perform like a straight-through NH except that they idle
as well as a swayback NH..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 11:26 pm:

BTW- there's no way I'd ever hook up that primitive heating element. I take those out and throw them away before I install the carbs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 12:50 am:

I've got two of them; one Simmons and one Wizard. I also have a Simmons head which I plan to use, but since I've decided to go with a Model B intake and exhaust, I'll probably use a Zenith or Stromberg carb. I would be leary of having a heating coil that close to a fuel source, also.


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