Hogs head question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Hogs head question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 03:40 am:

Just about to remove the hogs head to finish the outside oil line.

I was in two minds as to whether I should drill and tap the existing or swap it over for a spare one I have that has been already drilled for the fitting.

Now the question. They appear to be different. The one currently fitted does not have the bolt holes on top. The spare does. Looking at the back of the head it appears that the bolt holes are there for the spare.

Do I have the wrong one currently fitted?

It is a '23 Canadian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob from Nova Scotia on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 04:59 am:

The one on the bottom, with the holes is a 26-27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 05:02 am:

You have a 1926/7 block in your T, the spare hogs is it's match.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 06:57 am:

If you have a 26-27 hogs head with the bolt hole ears at the top you must have a 26-27 transmission. The 26-27 transmission has a wider brake drum and band so the hole for the brake pedal has a wider spacing on the hog head than the earlier cast iron hog heads. I think a 1925 hog head has the wider brake band but has no ears at the top to bolt to the engine and frame.
Now you can use the narrow brake band in a transmission that has the wider brake drum but you cannot use a wide brake band in a 24 or earlier transmission that has the narrow brake drum. And you can use a Pre 25 cast iron hog head on a 25-27. The only thing is if you use a narrow brake band on a wide brake drum you don't get the full benefit of the wide brake drum because the band is more narrow (less surface area).
It is easy to tell the difference in the earlier and later hog heads. If you look at the holes for the pedals a 1924 or earlier hog head has all the pedal holes evenly spaced. On the 25-27 hog head the brake pedal hole is spaced wider apart from the other two pedal holes to allow for the wider band.
I hope this is a more clearer than mud.... Someone correct me if I am wrong on anything.
Robbie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 08:51 am:

The engine block in the top picture sure looks like a 26-27 block to me but I don't know anything about the Canadian or the right hand drive engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 10:23 am:

Lightened up the first photo, that hogshead is clearly not a '26-'27. It is the prior version with three hole screw on magneto pickup.

The spare hogshead is the correct Improved car version with pipe thread screw in magneto pickup.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 10:44 am:

Russell, as Robbie pointed out, the brake drum width is different on the later transmission.
Remove the inspection cover on the hogs head and "LOOK" at the drums. If the brake drum is wider, you need to use the correct hogshead to match the drum. It should be the one with the holes on top, but the transmission could be a replacement?????? (My RHD knowledge is limited to a project car)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 01:25 pm:

The Improved Car '26-'27 transmission with the wide drum must use the matching hogshead cover. Note the space between the reverse pedal shaft and brake pedal shaft....its 3" between centers.





Due to the wider brake drum, the spacing is different from the narrow drum transmissions.
Mixing the transmissions and hogshead will make for issues.

Narrow brake drum hogshead....space between centers of reverse and brake pedal shafts is 2 1/2"




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 03:48 am:

Thank you everyone. Great information once again for a rank amateur.
From information supplied above it would appear that I have an earlier box with narrow brake bands and a later motor. The bands appear to be correct for the box.
The car is supposed to be a 23 high hood.
It came from a deceased estate so I have very little information on the history.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 03:58 am:

This is the car it is in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 09:55 am:

Very unusual body on your T chassis.

Driver door is squared at the bottom, and curved into the large full cowl. Wonder what car this body came from.

Note what seems like Ford windshield is fitted with vinyl wind flap to mate with the lines of the body.

Nice looking wood pickup bed compliments it.

Common to find a late '26-'27 block replacing an earlier one, keeping the crankcase and transmission/hogshead of earlier date. Does your engine have a 3-dip or 4-dip pan?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 11:08 am:

He lives in Australia. It is my understanding that in Australia, they shipped in Model T chassis and built their bodies in Australia. Many of the cars down under look different than the ones on top!
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 01:37 pm:

You will need to keep your early cover so the brake band shaft lines up as you also have the early transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 07:17 pm:

Finally! Mark G hit the most important point! (This is the first time I looked in on this thread.)
It does not hurt anything to have a late block with earlier hogshead OR transmission.
You can even run the late transmission behind any block and inside any later than 1916 pan and/or hogshead. You simply must use the earlier narrow band.
It is the wide BAND that does not fit inside the earlier pans and hogsheads.
And it is the drum and band that decide which hogshead you must use. It gets little confusing. Suffice to say, you need to use the earlier hogshead to match the earlier brake drum and band.
That looks like a nice Australian body! Do you know who built it?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 07:22 pm:

By the by. All that said? Does not matter whether right hand drive or left hand drive. The pedals may be different. The cams reversed. Other things may feel strange compared to what you are used to. But viewed from front to rear? "Wide" and "narrow" are the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 09:19 am:

Dan, It is a three dip pan. From photo's I have seen of others I think the body is correct. Thankyou all for the information. My question has been answered. I will pull the hogshead off on the weekend.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 10:18 am:

Russell

Why pull the hogshead? The one now is right for your transmission and bands. The current mounted hogshead has to be used with your transmission and narrow bands, so don't change it!---your bands won't line up with the pedal shafts of that late hogshead with the cover bolt holes to the block.

If you are only wanting to mount an accessory outside oil line, get the new kit for the '25 and earlier hogshead/magneto contact that you now have:




The reason you have the 3-dip cover is that your original block was the early style that mated with your current transmission/hogshead. In the past the original block got replaced with a later Improved Car block ('26'-27)! Actually that is good, as the last of the T engines got a stronger crankshaft!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 08:47 am:

Thanks Dan. My understanding from reading on this forum is that the magneto oil pickup is not up to the job. As the previous owner has fitted a good size outside line I thought it would be best to complete the job and use the recommended one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 09:41 am:

Some think so, but in my experience and watching the oil flow at speed out the end of the tubing, the mag post style is good, sure a great deal important to have one than not. The single inside funnel line can get plugged with gunk in the elbow of the funnel.



In tests between the mag post style and the bolt on hogshead version with scoop inside, the mag post put out 1 quart in 3 min. One quart in 14 seconds from the big outlet bolted on the cover, , but just more work to install, for as you know that hoghead has to come off :-)




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 03:01 am:

Russell,both the oil lines which pick up oil from the magneto post deliver less oil than the type which needs a hole cut into the hogshead to mount a scoop. Whether there is a difference between the screw-in 26-27 type and the earlier screw-on type is a moot point. I would go with the earlier three screw mounted pick-up and save yourself a lot of work. That hollow bolt down the front end can only handle so much oil in the first place.

Do you know anything of the body manufacturer? It is nothing like a Western Australian tourer I am currently re-wooding.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 03:40 am:

Allan,
I did a swap with a bloke in Collie. W.A.
He bought it from a deceased estate in northern NSW about six years ago. He has had it in storage since then. I think he it said Port Maquarie.
Where would I look to id the body?
Russell


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 08:16 am:

Hi Russell

Apologies, but i'm not ignoring you, just been extremely busy both at work and restoring my 1910

If you are ever in Perth give me a call as i do need to catch up with all T owners in WA soon

Alan Long


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