1925 Coupe Possible Rip Van Winkle?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: 1925 Coupe Possible Rip Van Winkle?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 01:01 am:

Last year, I posted about a local car for sale that may or may not be unrestored. I have resized the photos, but can only get two photos to load per post, so that is the way you'll see them. If anyone wants to see a larger picture of any single view, let me know and I'll blow it back up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 01:03 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 01:07 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 01:08 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 01:10 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 01:16 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 07:31 am:

Pictures are not very good quality, hard to really tell anything.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 11:09 am:

I'm not sure but if it's the Van Winkle from Bruce's book you're referring to I'm pretty sure it was a Touring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 11:21 am:

They look like Craig's List pictures. :-)

Can't see anything specific. Make the files smaller NOT the picture size. (Here we go again.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 11:47 am:

Not totally original. Some of the upholstery looks like it has been replaced. It should have brown upholstery on the upper part of the body and headliner. What's there looks gray. Can't tell about the seat. The visor looks like it may be original. Can you post bigger photos of the visor and of the top.

Thanks,
Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 11:50 am:

The car looks very shiny. The original paint cars which I saw as a boy were flat looking.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 02:16 pm:

From what I can tell it looks like a car that was a real good original and someone replaced some of the upholstry and may have painted it.

It also has a water pump which tells me some work or restoration work was done to it.
Work done maybe 15-30 years ago? MHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 09:34 pm:

The pictures were taken by me with a digital camera which normally produces excellent pictures, before downsizing. A Forum member offered to try to post them for me so I'll see if he can do better. (Car definitely isn't and was never a touring car).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:30 pm:

Never said the pictured car was ever a Touring. I said the car in Bruce's book was a Touring. Now if we're going to apply the term Rip Van Winkle to a car according to the book it means a totally un touched vehicle. Put to bed early in it's life and left there.At least as I read it. Possible exception? The car in the book had a speedometer. From the dealer. This car has a water pump and questionable paint & interior parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff V on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:51 pm:

Yes, the paint would be dull, the lacquer finish used at the time was very shiny but would fade very quickly (I've heard within months). I'ld say the top has been redone also, I've run into a couple original top material T's and it tends it shrink a bit and develop little cracks as it gets brittle. This material looks super nice (judging by the visor). It looks like a very nice car, but I don't think it's original unrestored.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 10:50 am:

It appears to me the car has been restored at some point, so it couldn't be a Rip Van Winkle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 03:56 pm:

I think we need to be careful with the use of the name/phrase "Rip Van Winkle". It was used to both name and describe a specific model T that was discovered about a half century ago. The specific characteristic giving that car its name was that it had "slept its entire life", well, almost.
The car was originally purchased, and driven to its new home. The new owner tried to drive the car. The common joke was that the car wouldn't respond to him like his horse did, so he parked it in the barn/shed to punish it. Some people were not ready for the new age. So there the car sat for a couple decades with less than twenty miles having been driven.
(From memory, risky at best) This car ended up with a few more miles, about 70 (?), when it was stolen after sitting for about twenty (?) years. It blew one tire, which was then replaced. Was recovered, and returned to its barn/shed. It was known about by a number of people, but truly discovered again years later. Purchased by hobbyists, cleaned up and preserved as one of the best preserved, lowest mileage Ts in the world.

There have been many rumors of other cars, even ones still in their Ford shipping crates. Most of those rumors have been nothing more than that, rumors. There have been two, with enough corroborated witnesses to believe they do (or did) exist. However none that I know of that their current whereabouts is known. Or even if they still exist.

It is not enough for a car to be totally "not restored" to be given the title of "Rip Van Winkle", the car needs to have been almost not used and preserved as nearly new. A "Rip Van Winkle" must have basically slept its youth away only to delight us with tales of the past in its old age.

That coupe above, is no more another "Rip Van Winkle" than my coupe is. However, it looks like a really good car, as mine is.



Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 04:29 pm:

The "Rip Van Winkle" Model T that was featured in the book "Model T, The Car That Changed the World" now resides in Bakersfield, CA. and was featured in an episode of the late Huell Howser's "California's Gold" series spotlighting the old Ridge Route.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 07:01 pm:

I never stated the car was an authentic "Rip Van Winkle". As all should note from the original post caption, I said "possible Rip Van Winkle". I think the word "possible" lets me off the hook, so don't shoot the messenger. I have my doubts that the car is an original survivor that hasn't had any restoration, although if you know some owners/sellers, they will claim anything. I am claiming nothing. It isn't my car and I have no ties to it or the seller. So THERE! If you want to jump on someone, I'll get the owners name and contact info, and you all can jump on him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 09:10 pm:

The original Rip Van Winkle that Bruce found was a 1917 Touring that had 26 miles on it. From memory when put away when new in 1917 it had 13 miles. The farmer bought it to stop car dealers from bothering him as he already he had a car. He never mentioned that he never used it. Along the way some kids stole the car and it increased the mileage to 26. The owner died in 1941 and it was left in storage. As I remember it was bought in the 1990's and it showed up at the Bakersfield swap meet, now with about 100 miles.
There was a long article in the VF about the car when found, Bruce was incredulous about the paint job, you could see where the paint was poured on....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 10:43 pm:

Tony, I know the history of the Rip Van Winkle 1917 touring car as I have both of Bruce's books and the Vintage Ford that it was published in. Once again, I used this term very loosely and in no way believe that this car is completely untouched. It does appear to have had some amount of restoration somewhere in its lifetime, but I can't convince the owner/seller of that. Steve Jelf has volunteered to try to resize my original pictures in better quality.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 12:44 am:

My apologies, Terry W, I meant no offense to you. Some terminology starts getting used too freely and looses its meaning. I meant my comments to be in general, not to you personally.
I know what you mean about convincing people about the past restoration of some cars. A car I used to have, I was told when I bought it that it was the original paint. I told them it wasn't. I showed them some over-paint on the top material. I explained the cause of some age checking in the paint. I bought the car and enjoyed the car for several years. I never claimed the paint to be the original. I met a fellow on a club tour that had owned the car previously. He told me that the paint was the original. I told him it wasn't. Showed him the over-paint on the top material. explained the checking in the paint. He never believed me. The person I bought the car from never believed me. I needed to sell the car when I was buying a house. I never claimed the paint to be the original. I heard later that it was. (It wasn't.)
Sometimes I just have to give up.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 09:29 am:

OK, here are Terry's pictures in a bigger size. How many non-original clues can you find? I've spotted some.




























Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 10:31 am:

To me the close up photos show that this car is a very good original that didnt have to endure 40++ winters on the back fourty.
Its a better original than the 24 Coupe I have when I first started working on it.

This example of a good original was kept in good shape and has been repainted, upholstry replaced as needed and an "improvement?" (water pump) added. A few other things were done over the years.
The visor looks exactly like the same material that Classtique made for me. I dont think the countersunk washers and the way its attached is original.
Mine was a original or what was left of it and it was done a little different.
Its looks like the radiator is an older replacement??
The work was done over time to a good original in my estimation.
Just an opinion from looking at the better pics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grady L Puryear on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 10:44 am:

This brings to mind a Rip Van Winkle 1925 that I bought back in the '50's. A Lady in Round Rock had the car in a barn on her place, it had been sitting there for years, her husband (deceased) had bought it new. I got is for $50, not a bad price at the time, those old cars were plentiful and cheap. I put one tube in a tire, filling stations had them then, put in some gas, pulled it probably 50', and it fired right up. I drove that silly thing for years, lots of stories. If I remember, and I can't remember too well, the upholstery may have been brownish, with a stripe? I know the seat wasn't white.

Another car that I knew of was in Corpus Christi, again in the '50's, one of my Uncles knew about it and took me out to look at it. It was a '35 if I remember, (Ford) the man bought it new, drove it home, sat down at the table to eat dinner, fell over dead, and the car sat there all that time (in a garage). It was not for sale, or I would have bought it.

Another '36 Ford I saw was in Tyler, Texas, it was as new as they come. This was in the '80's. The car had been bought new by an oilman in Tulsa, the story was his Mistress drove it and it was kept in his office building garage. He died, and she couldn't get the title, and his wife was determined the old gal wasn't going to get it, so there it sat. The man that had it then had put tires and a fan belt on it, drove it to Tyler, and put it up for sale, again, not much money at the time, but Mama said no more cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Saturday, January 12, 2013 - 06:36 pm:

Thanks to Steve for resizing and reposting the photos. Its time for each to make up their mind about the authenticity of the car, but don't tell me what you think. I don't care as it isn't my car. Once again the story that I'm given is that the original owner drove it for maybe ten years, then parked it in a good storage space when he bought a V8 Ford and didn't trade it. when he died, his widow donated it to their Catholic Church. The Church had no use for it, so they sold it to a Ford dealer who had it in his showroom until he sold the business. I believe he is the current owner/seller.


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