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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: OT
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Sunday, January 13, 2013 - 11:37 pm:

Ok Iam going a little off topic. I am playing with a MOdel A. I want to use the 4 speed tranny, but they are a crash box. So I was looking at the v-8 trannys and they have a synchronizer. But when did they or did they ever put synchronizers in the 4 speed box? Thanks for your help. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 12:06 am:

I dont think synchros came in till the 50s.

driving without synchros isnt hard, just takes some practice. proper double clutching technique and speed of the mainshaft is key to smooth downshifting

its one of those things that sounds really complicated when you describe it, but its like riding a bike, or driving a model T!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 12:18 am:

Hi Matt, Well they had synchros in the 3 speed cars in 32 I think. And yes I can drive my T and also double clutch. But Iam putting something together with a 4 speed and I would like to have scnchros. Thanks. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 12:26 am:

My 80 Chevette had a 4 speed synchronized transmission. It should be good enough for a Model A. I don't think synchronized 4 speed transmissions should be hard to find if you don't mind prowling a few wrecking yards.

Truck transmissions with a granny fourth would likely be a different animal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 12:35 am:

Why do you want a 4speed if its not an O/D trans ?
Are you working on a AA?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 12:39 am:

Robert, If money is not a big concern, there is a company that makes a direct adapter for a late model 5 speed O.D. Borg Warner to mate to a Model A. I know that I have seen their ads in Hemmings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 12:54 am:

The 82-86 Ford F100 F150 had a 5 speed 21%overdrive that fits very nice in an A. You must shorten and respline the tail shaft of the transmission, cut a little off the driveshaft and torque tube and use a bell housing from an AA. It's a simple fix that gives you fully snychronized overdrive transmission and you keep the torque tube in the car. The hard part is finding the transmission. Call me at 903 824 1949 if you have questions on how to do it yourself. Or there is a guy in Van TX that will sell you everything you need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 01:11 am:

Scott,
So you want to build something like this, the fastest Model A? I think it has a four speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFSGSL3Nrmc

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 01:51 am:

Robert
They make a complete kit to adapt a Chevy s10 4-5 speed to a model A . $800-$1000 for the kit. Plus a junk yard transmission,.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 05:23 am:

Not sure about 4 speeds, but in 63 Ford started making their 3 speeds all syn. I would think that anything 4 speed after that would be OK. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 07:04 am:

The Model A was crash, 3 speed in the car, 4 speed in the AA. Neither is very nice to shift. A friend had an AA - it wouldn't pull away in 2nd but 1st was about the speed of your great-granny on a Zimmer and going from 1st to 2nd took around a week, or so it seemed when you were trying to get across an intersection before the oncoming traffic got you.

The B & V8 in '32 got synchro on 2nd & 3rd, but as Bob says, lots of A people who want a daily driver go the F150 route.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 08:18 am:

The Forum name should be changed to "Off Topic".

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 08:49 am:

You opened a thread clearly marked "OT," read through 11 messages and then posted an objection to the fact that it was off topic??

(Besides, although a Model A is technically off topic, it's about as close to an on-topic off-topic subject as you can get in a Model T forum, isn't it?)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 09:15 am:

I know for a fact that 32 Chevys have synchronized trannys. not sure when ford started it... good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 09:22 am:

My dad started teaching me to drive close to home when I was 14. The '51 Plymouth he taught me in was synchronized between high and second, but not into low. He taught me to double-clutch before I even had a driver's license. Haven't made use of it very often, but I bet I could still do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 11:04 am:

The original Model A transmission had 3 speeds forward and one in reverse. That totaled 4 speeds.

If you use 600W oil in the transmission the gears won't clash when you shift, however, when it's cold it will be hard to shift.

The trick to having a smooth shift is to shift at just the right engine speed. If you wind it up tight, it will be harder to shift smoothly. Practice until you get it down. About 5 mph in low and 15 mph in second. Pause brefly as you move through neutral for the gears to slow down and then shift to the next gear. After you get this down pat, then you can try "double clutching" The object is to get the drive gear which is connected to the clutch, to be going at the same or nearly the same speed as the driven gear which is connected to the wheels, so that the teeth just slip right in. To do this, you pause in neutral and quickly let out the clutch in neutral and then push the clutch back in to shift to the next gear. It is necessary to double clutch when down shifting because in that case you want the drive gear to be going faster, so you need to give it some gas when you double clutch. The downshift is harder to learn than the upshift, but with practice it will become easier.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 11:40 am:

Mentioning all those sychronized transmissions is no help. They are all fully synchronized after the mid '60s, the trouble is they will not just bolt right up to a model A engine without a special adapter. Their front shaft is usually too short to reach into the A clutch, they need a thinner flywheel housing AND an adapter/bell housing to match. So why tell us about some 4 speed you once drove that was synchro in all gears?
Every Japanese and European and American car that offers a stick shift tranny is all synchro.
What you need to do is find one with the shifting lever far enough forward, like an Aerostar, so the lever doesn't come up behind the front seats and one that you can buy an adapter for that bolts to the model A engine.
If you ask these questions on model A forums like Ahooga.com you'll get answers from model A guys who have done this conversion.
And it won't be off topic!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 11:53 am:

Thanks guys, The info is great and will have me thinking for a few days on what way to go. What Iam wanting is a 4 speed box with the granny gear and sychro,s and to use my A motor. I see that the AA tranny is a crash box and so is the v-8 tranny. I was wanting to know if the late v-8 4 speed trannys had sychro,s. Up till 46 they are still a crash box. But the f150 box looks like the way to go so far. I have a full machine shop so mating the box up will work out for me. Thanks for all the help, Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Derocher on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 09:04 pm:

Hey Scott, I have a 1949 Ford f-3 and have been told that was the last year before the syncronized tranny. Mine is double clutch all the way, 4 speed find and somewhat grind..A friend has a 52 f-1 with what they called the "cost clipper" straight 6 with a syncro so it was right in those years on the 4 speed..Hope this helps...Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 10:50 pm:

There were some in the early '50s that were synchro 4 speeds and some were non-synchro 4 speeds.
When I bought my '51 F1 column shift 3 speed I could have had a '52 with non-synchro on all 4 speeds.
There was a regular duty 3 speed (column shift car tranny), a heavy duty 3 speed floor shift and 2 different 4 speed trannys. One was synchro, the cheaper one was not.

A model A trans is not a crash box. It is a sliding gear transmission with no synchronizers.
A motorcycle transmission can be a crash box.
That is a different type. It is always in gear but hubs lock into them similar to a synchro hub but the hubs and gears are very small and just lock (crash) together without much damage each time it is shifted. Like shifting a boat from forward to reverse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 10:57 pm:

Whatever you "think" synchros did NOT wait untill the sixties.
The '32 Ford cars and pickups had synchros on 2nd and 3rd. So did all to follow.
It was that way with everything & other makes.
I think Chevrolet cars started with synchros on all 3 gears in '66. I had one. A Chevelle Malibou
I don't remember when Ford went all synchro but I have a '67 trans from a van that is all synchro 3 speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 02:22 am:

I've driven a Model A since I was a senior in high school. I don't think they shift hard. My wife learned to drive a stick shift in a Model A Coupe. You do have to learn how to 'feel' your way into the gears, but once you get the hang of it, you'll be able to shift almost anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 02:34 am:

Jem - As long as David Dewey brought it up, I'd like to add to what he just said:

I drove a Model A Ford a lot of miles in my younger days, and I'd have to say that as David said,..."once you get the hang of it", they really are not hard to shift. In fact, you can soon get so good at double clutching that it becomes quite a source of satisfaction to shift properly, and after awhile, you can shift "smooth as silk" and it will feel good when you do it right.

I'm not sure I like the term "crash box", as there is no "crash" or grinding the gears when you do it right, and with a bit of practice, anyone can do it right. Drive that ol' "A-bone" for awhile before you replace the original transmission!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 02:38 am:

Oops,....the above was to be directed to Robert Owens. I had in mind the comment by Jem Bowkett, something about Model A's "not very nice to shift".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 08:20 am:

Dick,

FYI,
I did not bother to read through the 11 messages and simply replied because the thread title was OT. My post was just my opinion.

Willis


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