Hello all, Couple of newbies here. Our names are Kevin and Kris [brothers] and we are trying to resurrect a '25 TT steel cab from many years in the grave.
We have been around old cars our entire life as our father has about 200 cars and trucks from the '40s, '50s and '60s.
Kevin is into micro cars with a nice sized collection including King Midgets, Nash Metropolitian, and Crosley. If some of you WW-II vets promise not to give him too much trouble he also has Fiats, Messerschmitts, Isettas and so on. He also collects old scooters and ultralight airplanes.
Kris is into old garden tractors with a small collection of about 100. He also shows a 1948 Case VAO orchard tractor in full dress that he rescued from a hulk of rust and also has a weak spot for old cabover trucks although he only owns one - a 1955 Dodge COE.
The TT truck was a Craigslist find and we jumped in with all four feet. Might not have been the best financial move ever but we are having a blast! After a complete dismantle and evaluation, we are basically starting with the original frame and Warford. Everything else was pretty much toast.
We got the truck last March and have been gathering parts for nearly a year now so things are looking up.
I am not able to resize my pictures and they are too large so will try to include a link to my photobucket. If it works, more pics will follow.
Thanks for having us!!!!
I like it! I dig the radiator but I think it's for a tractor.
Greetings, Goldens. Welcome to the affliction. Looks like the TT needs a little work. Here are the next parts to put on your shopping list, if you don't already have them.
The Riad is an aftermrket for TT's as I have one on a old dirt track racer, if you need the wood kit for the top I carry them, also have a good left door w/trim, and frozen latch w/rust, but can be rebuilt. Have lots of TT parts firstname.lastname@example.org
Yeah, the radiator has beautiful honeycomb but its not right and tanks are shot.
Since that pic worked I'll keep going. This one shows the green engine before I de-mossed it with a power washer. Number 1 plug was out/broken and been rainin in there since before I was born.
Next is [or was] cab floor. You can see the tin worm made the cab beyond repair. I think leaves fell in there every fall and held moisture. The Warford wouldn't shift because of rust on the shift rods but inside looks like brand new.
After bath to remove moss and ready to come apart. Had a nice patina once clean- just too many holes along the bottom. Drivers door got opened at some point and was left dangling to eventually break off.
I've started with worse and patch panels are available. You will have a blast working on it and even more fun when driving it. When are the other three or four T's going to join it, one will never due you know.
Your photos as viewed at photobucket are small enough to post directly to the group.
At 133kb, 131kb, 118kb and 135kb file sizes, they are all smaller than the stated 200kb
limit (itís actually 195kb) limit for posting to the group.
Iím not familiar with photobucketís system, or if they may have automatically re-sized them.
The TT looks good as a project and there is a lot less things to restore as compared to a T car. Sounds like the golden family has enough experience to determine if the engine can be salvaged.
I you decide to get rid of the radiator I would be interested
I forgot to mention brother Kevin has a 24 two door sedan he found in a local barn a few years back.
Also we are in Missouri.
Looks like a great project. Have fun with it guys! That is what it is all about. You will find a wealth of knowledge here - these guys are great!
Hopefully Hap posts his obligatory welcome post which is a huge help to newcomers.
Welcome to the forum guys. You've come to the right place. Stay a while and make yourself at home.
Kevin I'm in Fulton Mo, I have some patch panels for the sq cab and there are a lot more available email@example.com
Do you have patch panels for '26 touring center or "B" pillar panels?
OK, Thanks to Art's info and encouragement, I think I have this picture thing figured out. Thanks all for the welcomes and offers of parts/help. I will [try] to continue with updates.
I'll toss up a picture of the rear. Most springs were broken and everything on this truck was well worn when it was parked. Figure that and the fact that it sat in the same spot outside since the 1950's [only a guess]and with Missouri humidity to factor in more "rustability", you get a lot of deep rust pits in most every piece.
John Danuser, I met/talked to you briefly at the Queen City auction last May 5th.
We got several items at that sale but were so green we didn't know what parts were correct or what all we needed. We wound up leaving a flywheel we had purchased at the auction but got lucky as the ringman wrote our bidder number on the part when it sold. The seller called a couple of days later and said he had the part and would hold it for us. Kris drives a truck hauling ag chemicals and goes through Queen City often so he was able to stop in and get the flywheel within a few days. He had to back his companys Peterbilt about two blocks and up the drive since there was no room to turn around. The seller was gracious enough to give a tour of his cars, shop, and Kris even got his first ride in a Model T that day!
Model T's collect the nicest people!
You only have one chance to keep things original! My vote is get it in working order and drive it. Don't worry about the body. See my profile pic.
Kevin I have used springs not broken, and many T and TT Ford parts 573-642-2473
Thats a beautiful ride Mattthew. I do like the original patina look but the cab on our truck was only held on by the steering column. We had to strap it to the frame to haul it. The provisions to bolt it down are long gone.
if your not going to use the radiator i want it! that thing is cool!
Once down to the bare frame it was obvious the frame was bent so out came the bottle jack and a chain. When straightness was achieved, the frame had a date with some abrasive sand. The blaster guy found a couple of cracks so those were ground out into a "V" with holes drilled in the ends and then the crack got some 6011 rod melted in.
Next up POR-15 and companion Chassis Coat black gave the frame some protection from the elements that had been so hostile to the metal in previous decades.
We were very lucky to have two auctions right here in Missouri with a lot of Model T parts in 2012. The first one in Queen City in early May yielded some much need items and the second, a two-day auction near Smithville, MO in November had loads and loads of TT specific and regular T parts to choose from.
We really made a haul at the Smithville auction last November. Not sure the sale was advertised in the best manor. Really the only way we found the auction was we asked other T owners who might have parts. When called, the guy he said he couldn't sell anything because it was already listed in his auction! Had we not stumbled on this lead and in such a timely manor we would have missed out. We rolled out of the sale with two pickups and a 16 foot trailer loaded down. Unfortunately, a lot of good Model T items went to scrappers at that sale. The seller even bid a few items back in once he saw scrappers were about to win the bid! I'll be glad when/if scrap prices get back down to $35/ton.
I'm going to enjoy watching the resurrection of this TT. It's great to see the enthusiasm!!
Back in August while lurking here [before membership] I found this thread. Thanks to John Cassara for posting the ebay link! Most forums I am active on have a thanks button - wish there was one here.
In checking today the subject ebay auction link still works. We were the winning bidders on this Ford script bed in very good condition. Our truck came without a bed so this was very much needed. With minimal work and new wood it will be a real beauty!
I found the original thread on a Friday evening at about 10PM - the auction closed the next day, Saturday morning, and by Sunday daylight Kevin was on his way to Lewis, KS to get the bed.
Low and behold the seller also had the front half of the truck! The frame had been cut just behind the cab but the cab itself was in much better shape than what we had. Things were really falling into place. Luckily it all fit on the trailer. The seller just wanted to clean up his place and made us an awesome deal on the cab. The engine was still in the frame but the head had been off for many years and good ole Kansas sand was in every crevasse. This engine had the same abundance of compression [stuck] as our original engine. The rear half of the frame and rearend were nowhere to be found.
Here is a picture of the bed and cab on the trailer.
The gods of useable sheetmetal have smiled on you. Unfortunately I pray to the god of "sorry, I just scrapped it yesterday...".
Looks like some pretty cool cars in the background too. I always wanted a crosely wagon but Sonya says I have too many cars now.....
Backing up a little here but I wanted to show this picture. Those of you familiar with the steel cabs for TT's can easily see how much the cab has fallen down over the frame. Now I'm sure when we strapped the cab down to haul the truck on the highway we contributed to the problem - but a lot of metal has simply disappeared. The piece of metal mounted to the top of the frame under the back wall of the cab is supposed to be horizontal. It used to be some of the cab structure and the mount to hold cab to frame. The old battery cable is doing its part to hold the cab in place.
It is easy to see how far into the ground the truck had settled by how much of the spokes are missing.
Your welcome Kevin. I would have bid on that bed but it's much too far for me. I'd be happy to find the rear most cross member with the Ford Script on it and build the rest.......
Check my profile pic.
OK Here is the main crack the blaster guy found. The rivets should have been removed so I could separate the two pieces for a better repair but this thing is not going to be hauling any more loads. I did weld the bottom side too and I think this repair will be fine. You can clearly see the rust pits in this picture. For you T guys its probably status quo but I'm not used to working on something so old/bad.
Here is the frame looking much better. The etching process is messy but it really makes the POR-15 stick.
This is the load on my F250 after the auction last November. I didn't get a picture of the other pickup load or trailer but you can get the idea. The cab had already been blasted and nearly all the needed bodywork is done. This cab [#3] was even better than the one we got in Kansas. It also has the cutout for the Warford! This will really save us time on the restore. Included with the cab were the doors - they have some rot at the bottom but are very fixable. The Kansas cab did not come with any doors so we were jumping for joy. The third cab also has new wood top bows. I removed them for transport.
Also on this load is two 20 inch rims for the back of the truck. Our trucks rims were shot so this is a real blessing. The tall part of the load is the entire back half of another TT [frame and rearend] that had been used as a trailer. I have already torn the "trailer" apart to assess what we can use or need. This rearend has very nice axles whereas the trucks axles had pitting on the seal surfaces and would have leaked. The trailer setup also has beautiful leaf springs so they will be going on our truck.
We got another complete TT chassis at the auction and saved it from falling into the hands of the scrap man. Another major item was a complete 1919 engine that is supposed to run. At least it wasn't stuck so it is better than our other two engines.
The nice rear wheels shown in the picture did not come from the auction. Kevin found those a fellow had rebuilt for his TT then sold his truck without the wheels. We got them, rebuilt, painted and ready to bolt on for less than the cost of just buying spokes.
Here are the TT springs and hardware after a little cleanup. They will get a bath in POR-15 as soon as it is warm enough I can leave the shop doors open for an extended time.
Be sure you check your spring leaves closely for cracks. I had to replace a top leaf. That's a common TT problem.
Why do you think the TT top rear leaves are so often found cracked? When I did my truck I found one that was broken in half with with one half in place and the other half gone altogether. The one on the other side was simply missing. All the other leaves, once cleaned up, were fine. It just doesn't seem to me that there'd be that much stress there, an opinion that's obviously wrong.
The second spring down from the top one [second from shortest] is cracked about half way across on both of these stacks. Since it will not be hauling anything I am hoping it will be OK to use. I figure the bottom 5 are more important than the top 4. Will that put significantly more stress on on other springs increasing the likelihood of more breakage?
Any and all input welcome.
You asked, so:
I suggest you make the effort to find replacement leaves. They're around, you just need to look a little. My uneducated opinion is that the entire stack works as a set. Any one of them not fully doing its job puts stress on the assembly (load or not) in a manner it was not designed to deal with, potentially causing other problems.
Just my $.02 worth.
Incidentally, I really like what you're doing with your truck. It's going to be a neat rig when you get it finished!
Guys give the length of the 2nd one down and I'll check my supply of loose ones firstname.lastname@example.org
Thanks John, I'll check the complete chassis from the auction when it warms up enough to get out there and see if they are good first.
Thanks Henry, That's what I asked for was opinions.
I have pretty much brought you up to where I am currently in the TT resurrection. A few months back I took the top off the Warford and everything looked good inside. Yesterday I tore it completely down. I found one questionable bearing and one of the shift rods has deteriorated quite a bit where the shifter catches it. My picture is horrid - sorry. After welding up the missing area, I reshaped it to where it will catch and work properly. The shifter itself also needed to be built up on the bottom end so i fixed that while I had the welder drug out. The bearing is a Gilliam brand - they sold out to Timken in 1925.
Kevin, looks like you guys are off to a good start. I have a lot of TT parts and I'm not too far from you. I live in Mound City, right on I29 in the N.W. corner of the state. If I can be of any assistance, let me know. Dave
Kris delivers to the three agricultural chemical places on 2nd street in Mound city occasionally. Usually deadheads back towards home with a big empty truck too! :-)
We'll let you know if we need something.
Kevin, I work at one of those places (Yocum Service Inc.) part time as a welder. We do a lot of work on their spray rigs and equipment, building and rebuilding stuff. Let me know the next time Kris will be up here and I'll try to catch up with him. Dave
Nothing exciting to post today so I figured I'd post a picture of the radiator that came with the truck. It's not a honeycomb design like I thought but still has a kewell factor. We are going to be keeping an eye out for good top and bottom tanks in hopes of using it. ENJOY!!
It needs more bolts.
Looks great. I'm restoring a roadster pickup right now. My next T project may be a TT. Either that or a tractor. Of course I'd like to finish the project I have before buying another...
Kevin, send me a PM and let me know what company Kris drives for and maybe I can catch up with him. If he has some time, I can show him my "stash". Dave
I am picking through the rearend pieces and using the best of each piece in this rear. I noticed when I took the two rearends apart that one had four spider gears and one had two. Why the differences and is one better to use than the other? Thanks!!!
The two gear unit was the early one. Later, I'm not sure exactly when but I think about '23 or '24, the unit was beefed up with four gears.
According to the March 15, 1927 Price List, Chassis and Body Parts, Model T One Ton Truck booklet the differential pinion shaft (two gear unit) was used from 1918 until 1923. The differential spider (four gear unit) was used from 1923 until 1927. Only the shaft/spider and the differential gear case were changed. All other parts remained interchangeable.
Found an interesting flaw in the book. It lists the quantity per truck of part no. 1032, pinion gear, as 2 for years 1918-27 when the reality is that it takes 4 per truck when the later spider unit is used.
I believe I'll go with the 4 gear unit. It has slightly less wear and might hold the torque better when I hit the nitrous button.
Kris, before you put that rearend together, I recommend that you install a set of the neoprene axle seals that are available from the vendors. Dave
Yes, definitely do what David suggests. Also, it's very important to replace the inner felt, one on each side just outboard of the inner bearing. I don't believe there are modern replacements for them, but you can get the felts from one of the vendors.
Remember, the inner felt contains the rear end oil, which also lubricates the inner axle bearings. The outer seal contains the outer axle grease. The space in between should have nothing at all but the axle shaft itself inside the housing tube. When the inner felt fails and the oil travels out to the outer bearings, it washes way the grease causing bearing failure and/or excessive wear on the axle shaft bearing surface.
If you're using the inner felt seals, they go on the axle between the inner bearings and the outer bearings. If you use the neoprene seals, as I would, they go inboard of the outer bearing sleeves. They'll stop the oil that gets past those felt inner seals from reaching the outer bearings and washing out the grease. Finally you have felt seals outside the outer bearings. Felt should be good enough there, as it only has to hold in grease, not oil.
Thanks a bunch guys!
I am/was confused about where the seals went. I did get new neoprene seals. I thought they went just outboard of the inner bearings - replacing the felt inboard seal. I also got new felt seals for either side of the outter bearing. Now that I found out the neoprene seals go just inside the outboard bearing do I still need the innermost felt seals or do I leave them completely out?
BTW, I'm glad to know the neoprene goes out far enough it doesn't have to slide over the rough - unmachined surface of the axle. I kept thinking there was no way that seal would survive.
And while I'm thinking about it, Where does the driveshaft felt go? There was none when I took it apart. I'm thinking just behind the bushing near the front of the driveshaft?
Thanks again for all your help. You just saved me from destroying $40 worth of new seals!
1. I used both the neoprene seals inside the outboard bearings AND the innermost felt seals. It sure can't hurt and it seems that it would provide redundant oil containment, something a T (or TT) could always use!
2. The drive shaft seal goes just forward of the forward worm gear bearing. I'm not sure what you mean by "near the bushing near the front of the drivshaft", but it sounds like you mean up at the other end of the drive shaft near the transmission. It does not go there.
I agree with Henry. It won't hurt to use both kinds of seals.
Here's the last part of assembling an axle. It's for a car, but some of the truck will be the same.
I purchased a '13 roadster a couple of years ago with a replacement front spring. Apparently many of the old early front springs broke. It took me over 2 years to come up with a good replacement.
Today it was over 60 degrees so I gave the rearend a bath in POR-15. Won't be long this will be mounted along with driveshaft and Warford which also got a shiny new coat today.
Kevin / Kris
I have a 24 TT and am working on the frame and rear also. I am curious if you sandblasted the parts prior to the POR 15 application. I would also like to know how much material was used. Thanks Bill
I only had the frame sandblasted. I have a phobia about sand around any part that has bearings or gears. I learned that lesson years ago when I restored a David Bradley two wheeled garden tractor. :-(
I used a braided wire wheel on a 4 inch angle grinder to clean the rear and Warford cases. Tight areas get the same treatment with a Dremel tool. It took exactly one quart to do the entire frame, rear end, all springs, driveshaft tube, and Warford tranny.