Lizzie Lives (again).

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Lizzie Lives (again).
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Sunday, January 20, 2013 - 04:43 pm:

I've been fooling around with my 60 Rambler for about 6 months, and Lizzie got jealous. To get even with me, she decided she wasn't going to run. Finally got some time to look into things. She would start and run as long as you kept spraying starting fluid in the carb. Pulled the bowl off the carb and turned the fuel shut-off on, nothing no fuel. Pulled out the needle valve and found it plugged up with nasty, yellow, (10% ethanol) krud.
Cleaned out the needle valve and all the carb passages and presto, she starts right up. :-)
Just in time to go show off her wares, driving around on her 86th birthday on the 6th of next month. There's one gas station in town that sells ethanol free gas, no more of that garbage for this ol girl. Model T's might run on anything from moon shine to kerosene bit they won't run on rusty water.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Sunday, January 20, 2013 - 05:31 pm:

Be careful using ether on engines that were not designed for the detonation that you get with it, I have seen broken rings in gas engines that had been started with ether, that being said, I have used it in desperation (that may be how I became aware of the effect on rings)
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, January 20, 2013 - 08:37 pm:

Glad to hear you got the ol' gal running, again. I know that was on your mind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Sunday, January 20, 2013 - 09:58 pm:

Dennis
Glad to hear you have got here going also. A t will run on anything. The ethanol is not to be feared as this is a low compression engine it will not care as to the grade as much. The real problem is the same in all modern fuels today is they will not stay fresh combustible often for more than a few months more and more I believe that a T driven often is always more reliable than one that sit's for long periods of time. Bottom line any car allowed to sit 2 months or more with this modern gas is asking for trouble.!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 01:57 am:

Mike, that was the whole problem. I usually don't let Lizzie sit around for 6 months. She's running just fine right now on that (full) tank of krappy gas (plus a healthy dose of 'Stabil'). Even that is better than what she had to run on back in the day. I would have drained the tank but there's no easy (legal) way to dispose of the stuff these days.
In the morning, the Mrs. and I will use Lizzie to run our errands, grocery shopping, and the like and I will top her off with ethanol free gas.
Gustaf, it only took 2 squirts of starting fluid to eliminate everything but a fuel related problem. When I pulled the bowl of the carb and found it empty and stayed empty when I moved the float up and down (with the fuel valve on), there wasn't any doubt what was going on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 08:03 am:

Mike

I don't think it was the E10 that caused your problem. I have been running my T with E10 as long as I've had it with absolutely no problems. I even pull the float bowl occasionally to check for accumulated rust and varnish..never found any. Actually I seem to have far less trouble with the E10 than the old non ethanol gasoline which seemed to leave more varnish.

It would be interesting to have a survey on how may of us run E10 vs non ethanol gasoline. I guessing about 95% run E10.

I think you simply got some adultrated gasoline. Gas storage tanks at stations are notorious for leaks and ground water entering. If you happened to pump from that tank when levels were low, you would pick up a lot of water. If you do get the nasty yellow crud I would avoid that station at all costs.

Just my $.02

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 09:22 am:

Bud, I built gas stations for a living. What you're talking about was true many years ago, especially with steel, single wall tanks and may still be true in very rural areas, where a gas station may get 1 or 2 fuel deliveries a month. But modern tanks are double walled fiberglass, sitting in gravel with extensive monitoring systems on them (per the EPA).
http://www.veeder.com/us/products/tls-automatic-tank-gauge-systems/atg-tls-conso les/tls-300ci-automatic-tank-gauges
Not only do they tell you when a tank is low, they also monitor water intrusion (as well as many other factors, including temperature) and shut the system on that tank down, if water is detected.
The problem isn't about running the car on E-10, my car runs fine on it too, it's about storing the car with E-10 in it.
Now, I'm no chemical engineer but gasoline is one chemical (petroleum) and ethyl alcohol (vegetable) is another, when the 2 are combined, they only stay combined (when left sitting ldle) for a certain length of time.
Moral to the story, don't do what I did (and knew better than to do) and leave your cars stored with a full tank of E-10, E-15, or any other 'modern' combined fuel in them. I knew this topic would provoke discussion when I typed it and that's perfectly fine with me. Also, your results may vary depending on many other factors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 09:52 am:

On a side note Bud, I work in the Shell station (part time, for a little spending cash) where I buy my fuel for Lizzie and my other 3 cars. It's a high volume outfit that gets at least 2 fuel deliveries a week. I've worked there on and off for 16 years. I know the refineries where the fuel comes from, many of the guys who deliver it and even the guys who repair the place because I'm nosy and I like to go out and 'talk shop' with them.
I forgot to mention in my last post, each one of the dispensers has what is known as a 'HydroSorb' fuel filter in it. It's a spin-on, very similar to the filter on a modern car except for the fact that the filtering element in it absorbs water and plugs up, thus the dispenser doesn't dispense anymore. If there was a record of Maint. changing these filters all the time, I would do as you say and avoid the place like the plague. If it wasn't an outfit I was very familiar with, I would be suspect of it but under the circumstances, I can pretty much rule out the 'bad gas' factor in this case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 11:20 am:

Why not drain the tank and dispose of the gas by using it up in your daily driver?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 11:50 am:

Can't say I thought about that Steve? But I'm not that sure that I'd want to put that stuff in a 'computer car' with a tank mounted fuel pump, fuel injection, and all those sensors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 12:21 pm:

Steve, I got a chuckle with that. I give my T the old gas I have sitting around in the generator, lawn tractor, and cans whenever it is getting old. I figure that "Rusty" won't care and I sure don't want to risk putting it in the MGTC, motorcycles or modern cars.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 01:08 pm:

Do you have a good method of transferring the "gas" from one car to another? I always end up with a mouthful of gas and would rather find a smarter way to do it.

Vintage Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 02:47 pm:

For syphon, bought at a swap meet a cheap accordion like hand pump with attached tube, works great. A friend showed me the way with an air hose, he did it that way. Simple.

Here is a You Tube on the air pressure method.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wgT6EE3X1Y


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Schultz_Sheboygan,WI on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 04:19 pm:

Here is what I use. Picked mine up at a snowmobile show, they are on Amazon. Look up rattle siphon.I am always taking gas from one car to the other car and the lawnmower is always thirsty too. It works great, no mess, no taste.


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