Springs On Rear Axel? Part 1

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Springs On Rear Axel? Part 1
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Benton, Sherrills Ford, NC on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 08:23 am:

I have just begun to a rebuild of the rear axle on my 26 speedster. When I opened up the case I found a spring on each side of the ring gear case. None of the books I have talk about these springs. What are they for and should I put them back in. Picture attached

I could also use some advise on several other problems. The attached picture shows the ring gear housing and crack in it. Is this a problem? Use it or replace it? The ring gear seams to be worn quite a bit. If I replace the ring gear must I replace the Pinion? Picture attached. Use or replace? The roller bearings on both sides, inter and outer mike out with some wear, but not to bad, around . 003 to .004", however the cage is quite loose. Is there any way to tighten up the cage?

This is not all I have, so I will call this round one. Thanks for all your help! NOTE, DATE STAMP ON PICTURES IS WRONG

Axle Springs?  What are they and should I put them back in?

Ring Gear Houshing Crack.  Use or Replace?

Ring Gear ware,  Sorry for quality.  Use or Replace?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 08:33 am:

Those are woodriff springs. The are opposingly wound and were to make the 600 oil return to the center pumpkin. If you are using modern seals,I would leave them out on your rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 09:29 am:

Yes, ring & pinion together. Bearing wear of .003 may be OK if the car isn't driven much, but with loose cages along with the wear I'd replace them. Some people peen the ends of the rods to tighten the cages. Others say don't bother, replace them. I'd replace that cracked piece. Might as well do it all right so you don't have to mess with it again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 10:15 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Benton, Sherrills Ford, NC on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 02:20 pm:

Thanks for the input. Any other comments on the ring gear and housing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 03:37 pm:

Did you have a lot of sounds in the rear axle before rebuild? I can see there are some wear on the ring gear, but it's hard to tell whether it's possible to reuse without another close up picture from another angle. It should also depends on how much you plan to use the car + of course your financial situation - a new set of gears are more than $300. You can't buy just the ring gear new. The pinion is also a security item - if it cracks you don't have any transmission brake anymore. Careful inspection of the pinion bearing is also crucial - I haven't found many reuseable pinion bearings, they tend to wear more than the axle bearings. The Fun projects modern replacement really is a good idea.

The cracked diff gear housing is a no brainer I think - they're cheap & plentiful in good condition, so you should find a better one.
Try find a couple of complete spare axles locally - you may get a lot of good parts out of them - or not, depending on how they were threated over the years.. unknown axles should be real cheap, though..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 06:59 pm:

Larry,

I would replace that carrier and the ring and pinion. It is not wise to cut corners in the rear axle, your life depends upon it. If you have a hard time finding the carrier let me know as I have plenty. Have you gotten and read the rear axle book, it is orange? If not do so. Also make sure there is no runout in the surface where the ring gear mounts or it could be trouble later, when you try and set up the ring/pinion backlash. I sell repop parts and I am reasonable on my new parts; and have lots of used parts. Feel free to email me at aloso@q.com for a price quote.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 07:22 pm:

That's an easy one! We use to wind up a gas welding rod and they are wound to work in the forward gear only! They keep the gear grease from flowing out of the axle. too much to the outer bearing and leaking out of the seals. I have made and used them but do they keep too much grease from lubricating those outer bearings? ????? I do not race my cars and I did not keep any of the ones that I built long. I never did hear of any bearing failures though and I think they would have told me. It came from some of our magazines and bulletins I think. I did these in the 70's. Use only the old original bearings though or you WILL have failures with or without those back oil return screw guides (springs) you call them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 07:27 pm:

Andy and Roger are both correct on the rear diff rebuild!!! Do not use that axle housing! They are plentiful unless they happen to be "riveted" 14 back which I'm sure your are probably not! Especially on a 26.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 08:05 pm:

Larry, you mention the inner and outer bearings mike out with some wear. The inner bearings have lots of oil and little load, so don't wear near as fast as the outer bearings. They often are fine to re-use. the outer ones may need replacing. You can often find good used inner bearings in an old rear end and use them on the outside. Make sure you replace both inner and outer bearing sleeves, #2509, with high quality sleeves. If I was closer, I'd take apart an axle housing from one of my many junk rear ends and send it to you.
Noel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Benton, Sherrills Ford, NC on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 02:55 pm:

Thanks so much for the input guys. I knew I could depend on getting good information from all of you. I will be replacing the carrier, ring gear and the pinion. Andy, I do not have the orange book so I will get that ordered. Also I will be touch with you shortly about parts! I do have the videos from the MTFCA and they have been a big help. Thanks so much for your offer Noel. Sometimes I fee like there are not to many T's around my area, but then the local club I belong to does have some contacts. I thank I have located a better ring gear carrier and I will get the new ring gear and pinion ordered. I will also replace all the sleeves with the new ones. Again thanks for the input and I will let you all know how I get along!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 03:03 pm:

Just a thought, since this is going in a light speedster and you are going to put a new ring and pinion in the differential, have you thought about a 3:25 to 1 set of gears?? I don't like 3 to 1 but the 3:25 setup seems to be pretty popular. It doesn't cost that much more to do and as long as you are going to be putting it together in your shop it is no big deal to install. You have to put the pinion in before you put the two halves together but that's no biggie. Also, if I were to give free advice, I'd put one of the Fun Projects roller pinion bearings in. I think it's a hundred dollar bill well spent.


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