Early Rear Axle Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Early Rear Axle Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 06:52 pm:

Is there a difference in the width of the differential gear case in a 1911-12 rear axle than the later gear cases? I'm having problems getting the two housings of a 1911-12 to come together. It is like the differential gear case is about 3/16" wider than the gap between the axle housings. Do I need an earlier differential gear case? I was using just a later model differential gear case and trying to fit it in the 1911-12 axle housings.
Thanks!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 09:41 pm:

First I would strongly suggest getting the rear end rebuild book. You need to fit the thrust washers. I do not think there is any difference in the size of the differential.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 10:16 pm:

The 1928 parts book lists the left and right differential cases as starting in 1914. That suggests to me that the ones before 1914 were different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 10:18 pm:

Steve, the ones before 1914 had a bronze bushing for the axle shaft gear to rotate in.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Brand on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 02:05 am:

Hi Verne. I had the same problem and the thrust washers were the cause. There are various thickness washers available. Once I got the thinner ones the rear end went together fine. A later differential carrier shouldn't be a problem.

Andrew.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 08:07 am:

Well, I did some more measuring last night. The space between the surfaces where the steel thrust washers go on the 1911-12 rear axle housings measures about 4.2". The width of the differential gear case plus the two steel and one bronze washer on either side measures around 4.4", so that means it is about 0.2" wider than the space available. Steve J., I am thinking you are right. I looked on the MTFCI site at the early parts books they have and something seems to have changed about 1913-14. I also learned by reading Bruce's Encyclopedia on this site that the roller bearing sleeves were different. The early ones (prior to 1912?) had the dimple about 3/4" from the end. The later ones, it was 1/2". These 1911-12 housings were bought at Hershey about 12 years ago by themselves. I am wondering if they were a matched pair. One side had the hole modified for the bearing sleeve dimple and the other side wasn't. One other thing I noticed was that when the dimples fell into the hole, the gap of the v-slot was not as wide. They were not Ford script sleeves so perhaps there was a difference with that manufacturer. The bearings, if I picked one that had smaller diameter rollers, fit OK in the sleeves. I have not measured the inside of the installed sleeve to see what the size is. Thanks to all for the help!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 10:35 am:

I have rebuilt a few 1910 and 1911-12 rear axles and they accepted later differential cases.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 10:41 am:

One other thing. I once had an early diff carrier with the bronze bushings and skinny spider arms and after removing the bushings it fit perfectly with later style axle gears and spider. It also fit in later axle housings. I think the only difference of note between the pre 13 and post 12 diff carriers, as Stephen says, was the bushings. True the early ones has fibre washers between the axle gears and the inside of the housings but that didn't mean the diff carrier had different dimensions as the axle gears were smaller.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 05:55 pm:

I have used the later case in an early rear and have had no problem. I did however have to grind the thrust washers down considerably to be the correct clearance


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 09:43 pm:

The 1911-12 rear axle in question will be at the Sunflower State Crankers Winter Clinic this Saturday in Hutchinson, KS for all to look at comment. I can understand how the thrust washers could be ground to correct the problem but I'm looking to lose a total of about 0.2" which seems a lot to me. Thanks to all for your comments. This is my first 1911-12 rear axle. It is possible that I have something hanging up or not together properly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 03:27 pm:

Is it too late to attend this rear axle clinic? I need to rebuild all of my 10,12, 13, and 14 differentials soon. Will these be covered? Some of mine I will have to cut up 14 axle housings as I am going to have to splice them together as my 10 and 12 housings were jack stands in the old days. I also need help in finding out what happened to Lavern Sparks who did some of my other early axle housings. Thanks.
Joe in Mo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 07:34 pm:

Joe,
It isn't too late. I think you can even walk in that morning and it would be OK. The only thing is the lunch...they would like reservations for that if you eat there. Some go off the grounds to eat, so it's not a big deal. There are some restaurants not too far away. Yes, there will be early rear axles covered. Our Flatland T's Chapter has put together a "Cut-Away" Rear Axle for demonstration purposes. After the seminar is over, it will be donated to McPherson College as a teaching aid.
Verne


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 08:02 pm:

McPherson College... LOL good school! They hounded me to teach there in the mid 80's. Before I taught at SMSU. Can't remember her name /Mary???? In personnel. How far is it to where you are from Coffeeville? I am in Branson.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 12:01 am:

186 miles according to Mapquest


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