Block problems.

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Block problems.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Petersen on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 07:36 pm:

It seems to me that I have a problem. Can anyone spot my issue?I think I know the answer, but is there anyone that has ever been able to repair this? Hate to throw away the block if it can be fixed.Block


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 07:44 pm:

Boat anchor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Petersen on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 07:48 pm:

Do you think Duct Tape would work? lol Actually, the car ran pretty good with just the 3 cylinders working. Maybe I can sell it on Ebay as a "rare 3 cylinder engine". I've seen worse frauds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 07:52 pm:

Charles depends upon which block you have? I have fixed blocks that are of the open valve type. If it is of the black T years then I would just find another block. You would have to build a furnace out of brick. Heat it with propane about 800 degrees weld it in small passes reapply heat not letting it drop below 450 to 500 F. heat it evenly then repeat the process over and over. Use ni. rod. It is a long process and requires stress relieving and more. Anyway yes it can be done. Sleeving would also be necessary.
If this was just a joke then sorry I butted in. LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Bayley on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 07:54 pm:

JB Weld mixed in with Tar - should do the trick?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Petersen on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:10 pm:

Joseph, this is from the Black T years, it is a '23. So, in your opinion your solution would not work on this block? And Simon, JB weld and Tar? Never heard of that. I'm a newbie, so I have not heard of a lot of things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:19 pm:

No, the idea isn't that a black era engine couldn't be fixed. It's that they're a lot more plentiful than brass era engines. It's easier (cheaper) to get another one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:25 pm:

you could sleeve it then do this, its my racing T block, all the ports are blockedI it looked like this id say there was no hope. that was a Model A, until it got 100% nitro


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:26 pm:

you could sleeve it and do like the top picture, its my T racing block i got for free, all the ports are blocked of with freeze plugs too.

if it looked like the lower one id say its beyond repair, thats what happens when a model A has had enough nitro.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:30 pm:

Looks like the problem was from loose or broken rod bolts. What did those look like?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:37 pm:

yeah i agree with kenny, looks like a rod bolt failure, I honestly think if you were to sleeve that cylinder then make a patch plate you could repair it much easier than brazing it back together,

i realize its probably much easier to just buy a new block, but part of the fun is salvaging the old stuff, plus 40 years from now a "black" block will be as rare a brass block is now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Petersen on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:48 pm:

The bolt broke and the cap was snapped. I think one of the cotter pins broke off and allowed the castle nut to loosten up and eventually snapping the bolt. Noticed a knock while on a drive. shortly after the knock, it broke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 08:48 pm:

The old time fix was fitting metal plates over the broken cast iron block.

Here is one, this is a '23 block...was fixed twice in the same spot where # 1 let go :-)



These patches were lined with asphalt roofing paper for gaskets too! And you see, a rod cap has the same hole centers as the block to crankcase bolt holes....that cap was used to clamp the metal plates in place.


Plate patches removed.

And this is what became of that busted block :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 09:28 pm:

If it were mine i would try to save it. Otherwise it might be a good donor for making a 2 cylinder like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1yiIh-IGw
Or graft it on to the front of an engine that had a similar problem with the #1 cylinder and make an IL6.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 09:31 pm:

Charles,
The block can be repaired but it is not worth the expense. There are plenty of blocks available that can be had for far less than it would take to repair yours. Ford made a lot of T's in 1923. It won't be hard to find a block. I have in my shop an engine that has had a similar breakdown repaired. A lot has been spent on the repair, the only difference being it is a 1910 block, almost impossible to replace. Find a better block and move on with your project. Send me a message if I can help you.
Fordially, Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 09:51 pm:

Charles, I had an almost identical repair to do on my spare 1912 block, worth saving because of its early date.

The welder had me tidy up the sides of the break. I was instructed to make two filling pieces of 3/16" steel plate to fit the holes, one for the skirt, and one for the cylinder wall. He heated the block in a furnace and bronze welded the patches in place, before allowing it to cool at a controlled slow pace. The repair is totally un-noticeable, once I threw a handful of sawdust into the wet primer I brushed onto the repair.

Of interest was his furnace. He had a hearth of fire bricks with a hole in the centre to take a really big gas torch. The piece to be welded was placed onto the hearth and he built up an igloo of firebricks around it and set the torch going first thing in the morning. When it was up to temperature, he remove enough firebricks to get at the repair site, did the welding and then closed up the igloo again. The gas torch was reduced to a pilot flame and left on overnight to allow the 'furnace' to cool slowly.In the morning the flame was turned off and the igloo was dismantled at the end of the day.

Unfortunately, he has retired now and his son proceeded to drink the business. Such a shame.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 12:53 am:

Charles Peterson:

I usually keep about 50 blocks on hand at my shop and I seldom move one. I do have guys looking for 26 blacks all the time. I had one guy from Ohio pick up five 26 blacks and another guy form back East picked up three 26 blocks. But I seldom sell the others. Unless a block is very early I would never repair a black. Why goes to the trouble and expense when good blocks are plentiful at the swap meets and farm auctions. A 23 block is worth about $50.00 or even less.

blocks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 01:28 am:

1, You have the front half of a six cylinder model T. It has been done several times and probably will be again.
2, Remember, the combustion pressure is only in the top half of the cylinder on a running engine. A sleeve, a sheet steel cover, and some J B Weld could give you many good miles.
3, I have been working on cast iron welding myself, and suspect I could fix that. If it were mine and a brass era block, I would probably do it after just a little more practicing and a few more fire bricks.

If you were close enough to me to come by and see what I have, I would consider trading a decent block with good Babbitt for that. Realistically, shipping two '20s blocks over 2000 miles would cost more than you should pay for a good block to replace that one. The last past mid'20s block I bought? About three years ago at a swap meet after sellers started picking up to go home, I bought a nice '22 block for $20. It had been clearly marked that price for hours and I only bought it to be another spare. I have paid a few hundred dollars for brass era blocks, and one I had shipped across country (thank you J).
You should be able to get a good, proper, block for $50 to $100 dollars. Then the fun begins. Rebuilding. Many good choices there. Good advice here (on the forum).
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 02:38 am:

Come to think of it i did see a block with a patch screwed over it about 6 months ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 10:08 am:

Just proves my theory that nitro methane isn't suitable for Model T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 07:12 pm:



http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 07:31 pm:

Charles, Me again... I hope you understood when I said brick up I meant firebrick!!
It looks to me that you had OTHER things going on with this engine to do the damage that it did. Is the wrist pin dug into the cylinder wall? Or did something fall into the cylinder? Something STOPPED that piston! The way the rod is bent. If so than you need to get another correct engine (if you are wanting a correct car) or really any other T engine will be ok. Depending upon what YOU want. I do not know I may be talking to a fellow who runs his T 50 mph down the highway! ?? Speedster type. If you live near fellow club members who can help you rebuild a T engine even??? You cannot just go to an automotive machine shop and ask them to do it for you. This forum will probably be the best for that info. If all else fails using the T suppliers that they will recommend will be the best thing. You'll get use to kidding on here too real soon! But for the most part these guys want to help a new fella.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration