What year are these two autos

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: What year are these two autos
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Grabowski on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 04:20 am:

I was asked by a friend to identify these two auto's. The roadster is a T but I dont know what the touring is for sure. He said that his family once owned a Maxwell, could it be?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Grabowski on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 04:22 am:

I cannot upload the 2nd auto


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Grabowski on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 04:24 am:

Here it is


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 07:07 am:

John,

If you have a chance if you could send me a higher resolution photo showing the front of the Model T that might allow me to figure out if I am looking at an under the front axle wishbone accessory, or accessory shocks on the front, or the rear radius rods. Or if you crop and post a higher resolution photo of the front axle that might work also. Or it might be just a blurry no matter how high the resolution …. but often times that helps.

All this assumes parts have not been swapped out. From the rear of the photo we can see it has the typical 1915-1925 rear axle and with the filler plug about parallel with the axle shafts we can say it is a very early 1919 or earlier produced car. Ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#rax2 “1919-1921 Similar to 1918 but now machined for a gasket between the two halves. Oil filler now 1-3/4” below the centerline. “



Also the 1922 license plate is visible but is later than the rear axle date. The fastener in the middle of the top is possibly an item to help date the car – but I don’t remember that one.

The Front of the car shows the unequal length windshield hinges that were introduced around
APR 1917 Acc. 78, Ford Archives
Windshield hinge (with the unequal length arms) noted.
ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc17.htm If it had the equal length windshield hinges when the windshield is folded the space between the top of the upper windshield frame and the dash would be about half that distance. Below is a photo showing the equal length windshield hinges in the folded position. (From Bruce McCalley’s (RIP) book pg 229 available from the MTFCA store and other vendors and also his CD).




Based on those items, the car could be from Apr 1917 (a 1917 model year) to very early 1919 (1919 model year) realizing there would have been overlap on both ends where both the new and old style parts were used.

Again, if you are able to supply a higher resolution photo or someone with better eyes or photo shop ability can determine if the front axle has the above or below the axle wishbone and/or accessory shocks then it may be able to be narrowed down a little further “IF” it had the new style under the axle wishbone. Then it would be an early 1919. Ref: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc19.htm
APR 14, 1919 Acc. 235, Box 39, #385, Ford Archives
"From this date two distinct designs of front radius rods, together with front spring perches, right and left, one on the Model T and the other on Model TT.
"The Model TT design will be assembled beneath the axle, instead of above the axle through the spring perch as heretofore.
"Although it would be possible to use the Model T design on the Model TT, we request this be resorted to only in case of a shortage serious enough to threaten loss of production."

If you want to send me a higher resolution scan (those are always welcome of Model Ts -- please click on my name and it brings up my profile. My e-mail address is the third line down.)

I’ll let someone more knowledgeable ID the second car.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Grabowski on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 08:38 am:

Thanks Hap, My friend will be delighted to know this information. I will see if I can get a scan of the photo instead of a picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:09 am:

The picture with the cowl is 1915 see the hood former, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 01:11 pm:

The big Touring car looks like a 7 passenger Studebaker six from about 1915 - 1918


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Dragone on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 03:51 pm:

The car in the first photo seems to be about a 1918, as it has "square fellow" wheels, non demountable. If it was a 1917 they would still be "round fellow".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 04:33 pm:



I think Frank is right about Studebaker. This '17 has more hood louvers but bodies were the same for several years.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 05:25 pm:

They also made that big seven passenger car with only a four cylinder engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 09:30 pm:

Alex,

If the wheels are the square felloes you are correct it would be a 1918-very early 1919. Hopefully a higher resolution scan of the photo will clearly show the style of wheels (round or square felloe). Looking that the photo before I zoom in the right front wheel appears to be a square felloe but when I zoom in it looks more like a round felloe. But it is low resolution and my eyes are not as good as they once were.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 10:19 pm:

I think it's a 17 or 18. It appears to have the wishbone over the axle, with a brace under the axle bent down for tie-rod clearance.

An under-axle wishbone should be straight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 12:53 am:

I am certain it is not a Studebaker. Before 1915, Studebaker had more of a step between the hood and cowl. Anything after 1915 had a slanted windshield. That windshield is straight. The angle on the steering column is not right for Studebaker. The fenders are also not, Studebaker was one of the first to not have the narrow strip rolled in under the side of the fender and I can see that narrow piece in the photo.
Notice, also, the ten spoke front wheels and only three louvers in the hood. I don't think it is Buick, Maxwell, Hudson, or REO. I don't know what it is.



The late '15 Studebaker I used to have.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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