Cool wet weather and condensation inside the motor question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Cool wet weather and condensation inside the motor question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 06:36 pm:

Anyone else seeing this? No steam in the exhaust, no bubbles or oil in the radiator. I have drained the oil twice to check for water, it's just what you would expect from a running engine with no filter but the inside of the transmission and the oil filler opening is has a white coating on them. You can see some droplets of water through the filler opening. I even pulled the valve covers off, just oil. I am leaving them off so I can check to see if there might be any cracks I didn't see in that area. Any time the engine is run it is allowed to come up to full operating temperature. The last time I checked the plugs, which was not too long ago, they just had their normal oily black soot on them. I am guessing that given the cool damp (wet) weather here in Portland Or and where I have my T which is a glorified lean-to with tarps on the side and given the amount of condensation on the outside of the engine, the same must be happening on the inside.
Any thoughts?
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 06:47 pm:

My car lives outside. The white foam is normal for me it leaves when the car warms up a few miles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 06:49 pm:

When I lived in Cincinnati I had the same thing Mark. It's humidity contamination of the oil. We don't see it here in Dallas or when I lived in Tucson because it doesn't rain that much here. Time to change the oil.

Someone made a PCV setup that fit their T, it might be a good idea for folks who live in places where it rains and snows a lot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 07:18 pm:

Same thing a hunnerd miles north of you.
I worried about it for a long time and checked things over many times.
Now I don't worry...just change the oil maybe every 500 to 1000 miles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 08:19 pm:

Thanks. I was thinking about some sort of vent for the inspection cover. I just changed the oil so I will keep and eye on it! There was a unit back in the day that had a pipe that ran from the filler hole to the carb, wonder if that is what they were trying to clear up. Only 3 1/2 months/450 miles or which ever comes first till the next oil change! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:38 pm:

Model T standard splash oiling with no filter should be changed every 500 to 1000 miles anyway. That condensation coupled with gas contamination from choking the engine when starting and short drives turns the oil acidic which is bad for Babbitt bearings. Oil filters in pressurized systems are designed to remove the acid.
No, this should not turn into one of our famous "what kind of oil do you use" threads. It does not matter whether you use detergent or not, multi-viscosity or not, without a filter, your oil will become acidic in under 1000 miles. Actual mileage really does vary, depending on humidity and other driving conditions.
I do not plan on ever converting a T to a filtered system. I just change the oil in the T often, then put it into the modern car. It has a filter which removes the acid and I am too cheap to throw away otherwise nearly new oil.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 01:23 am:

Wayne; Never thought of that using the old oil, I like it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 01:58 am:

I've run other flat head engines with out any indication of condensation. I suppose the Model T would be about as bad as it get. The oil says cold because it does not circulate past the cylinders as an overhead valve engine and the transmission acts as a big oil cooler. It probably never really gets warmed up to really dry out the oil.

I've heard that non-detergent oil will not adsorb moisture but detergent oil will adsorb moisture. I wonder if anyone has observed a difference in the amount of condensation based on the type of oil used?? Maybe the detergent oil will remove more moisture from the engine when it is changed then non-detergent oil. I don't know.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 05:52 am:

Perhaps you'd find this product to be of some help. They come in 14mm and 18mm spark plug sizes, which would mean coming up with some kind of adapter for a Model T.

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/viewitems/ignition-charging-supplies/d ehydrator-plug

You might also consider sticking a bag of silica gel (also available from aviation supply companies) in the exhaust pipe and sealing it up with duct tape.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 06:37 am:

Baloney regarding non detergent oil being better in any way than modern oil Jim. Crummy oil has no better protection against moisture contamination than good oil. Non detergent oil is not good enough for my lawn mower. Using non detergent oil in anything you care about is a bad idea. Sludge kills engines.

There is one purpose (that I know of) for non detergent oil in an internal combustion engine. It is used to break in cams properly in high performance engines like the 427 Fords in my garage. I use 6 quarts of SAE 30 ND every time I build a new engine, mixed with a pint of General Motors Engine Oil supplement, a ZDDP rich engine break in additive. The engine is run at 2500 RPM for 20 minutes. Then the rotten non detergent oil is drained and disposed of.

Non detergent oil is best for this use because it can circulate while allowing the camshaft break in grease to cling to the lobes during the critical 20 minute break in period. You want to drain it immediately afterwards and replace with detergent oil because the cam break in lubricant is not good long term for the other engine components in these high performance engines.

Please note that none of this is applicable to a Model T Ford unless you have something like a Frontenac or Rajo overhead valve head with crazy high spring pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 08:25 am:

I had the white mixture,around the filler neck on my Hack.

********************* Its gone now. ******************

How? The filler cap was an obvious re-pop from the past. The O.D. of the cap was the same O.D. as the filler neck, which means the crankcase was not BREATHING as designed. The moisture was trapped.

Swapped caps with another car and the symptoms moved with the cap. I bought a new cap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 09:13 am:

If the crap is yellow, it's from oil burning.

I use a 180 thermostat, because it causes the car warm up completely within a mile, and the oil has to get about that hot to evaporate the moisture and light acids. I also use a PCV valve and seal all the other openings on the Fronty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 12:20 pm:

Yup 180 thermostat or a burlap bag! The cap is original and the screen is clear. I should have put cardboard in front of the radiator when I took it to breakfast yesterday I didn't get her hot enough to clear the moisture. It was only about a 10 mile round trip. :-)


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