Rear wheel bearing is stuck! help please!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Rear wheel bearing is stuck! help please!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 11:37 pm:

im in the process of repacking my rear wheel bearings. I took off the nut, woodruff key, hub, cap, felt seal and now im down to the bearing. the one of the other side just slid out nice and easy. the one on the passenger side is stuck however. I had enough to get a flat screwdriver under the cage on two sides and pry out but i feel like im going to break the cage before it moves! any help would be great! also... why did it do this? am i missing something major here? the axle does turn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Boe on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 11:56 pm:

There might be a lip ground into the sleeve by the end of the bearing. Try bending an L on the ends of two pieces of heavy gauge wire and inserting into the 2 holes on the end of the bearing. Wiggle it around and the bearing should come out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 11:58 pm:

i hope that works. is it possible that old babbit has wedged itself so that it makes it harder to move?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:05 am:

With some help you could perhaps have the axle shaft turning while trying to pry out the Hyatt with the screwdrivers? Should make it easier to get the rollers out of the groove in the sleeve that's holding them now, I think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:09 am:

so should i replace my axle sleeve?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:15 am:

I'd use a wire hanger to make a couple of hooks. There's no babbit around the outer bearings. I suspect David and Roger are right about the bearing hanging up on a worn sleeve. It should come out with a little wiggling around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:20 am:

If the sleeves are worn the answer is yes, replace them. If you don't already have it, get the MTFCA rear axle book. Glen Chaffin tells you what to check and measure to see if it should be replaced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:25 am:

If it's worn it would be a great time to replace it :-)
If you haven't got the neoprene inner sealing you should take the opportunity to install a set of them too - then the rear axle lubricant won't dilute the outer bearing grease anymore so the risk for leakage to the emergency brake is greatly reduced.

Another thing to check is axial play = try rocking the axle shafts in and out - if excessive play you may have to dig deeper and change the thrust washers in the differential.
..Well, If you're not positively sure brass thrust washers has been installed in the rear end you really better do it now since the original babbitt washers will fail eventually, with potential catastrophic consequences.
MTFCA sells a good manual for rear (& front) axle repair: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/products/service-manuals


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:29 am:

While we're on the subject, check these out.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:38 am:

can i check the sleeves without pulling them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 02:49 am:

You'll feel any ridge indicating need for replacement with your fingers. Sometimes the surface flakes when worn - the sleeve isn't very expensive. The axles wear too, but they're much more trouble to change out (and expensive) Check the surface and if there's a ridge on the axle where the bearing surface ends(= no good, it's a trigger for axle breakage)

Measure the rollers on your Hyatt bearings when you've got them out + check the cage so the riveting hasn't loosened up. A loose cage could accelerate wear, I think, since the rollers doesn't have to roll straight..
Often Hyatts can be reused. Especially inner axle bearings, they get more lube and less load Unfortunately no good replacements are available - the plain roller bearings you can get from the vendors can't flex like the originals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 09:42 am:

Once the bearing is out, it's easy to remove the sleeve with a puller.






If you don't want to spend the fifteen bucks for a puller, and have the time, you can make one.

With the sleeve out, you can check it for wear with a micrometer. But if it's worn enough for you to feel and see a ridge, you don't have to bother with measuring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 09:51 am:

You've probably noticed since you have one side out, that the axle doesn't stay centered in the hole with the bearing out. In fact there may be a bit of "pressure" on it. Have someone wiggle the axle end while you pull the bearing. If it's a groove in the sleeve jiggling the axle should help to move the bearing out of it's rut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 09:57 am:

Here's what I mean about the axle not staying centered. This is with both outters removed. You're moving the weight of the diff gears trying to keep it centered. It's that weight you're trying to relieve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 10:03 am:

would it be a good idea to get the bearing off the other side to help it loosen up?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 03:12 pm:

Charlie B!
While correct that gravity may drop the axle down a bit, it should not pull to the rear as it is in your photo. I suspect that the radius rods are pulled too tight causing the housings to pull forward. You should check the housings carefully to square it up. This should be done any time a T rear end is put back together. It is a little more awkward, but can be done in the car using a carpenter's square, some good square wooden blocks, and a tape measure.

Nathan B,
As others have said, odds are that the outer sleeve has some wear near the outer edge and the bearing is hanging up on it. Good advice above. Especially a coat-hanger wire hook to pull it out with. If the groove isn't too deep, you should be able to wiggle, jiggle and pull.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 11:11 pm:

FOLLOW-UP

hello everyone. The bearing is out and there is a DEEP groove (likely 3/32nds) in the sleeve. So next step is pulling it out and tapping in a new one. I guess ill have to buy the tool from langs :/ oh well. at least its only 13 bucks. anyone make their own or know of a way to get it out without a tool?

Also, while the bearing and sleeve is out should i put neoprene seals in it? Do i have to take anything else out in order to do so? or do i just slide them in after i take out the sleeves


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 11:14 pm:

the wheel bearings were in there so bad the coat hanger didnt work! had to take a set of vice grips with a WIDE mouth and spin it out a 1/16th at a time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 11:19 pm:

Don't think I'm buying that one Wayne. Especially since the other side was in a different position. More towards the top of the hole if I recall. It's just the now partially unsupported diff gear weight causing the axles to go off center.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 11:28 pm:

Yes, new seals. Here's how. Just turn this 90.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfxWPsF4KhQ&list=UUFVx528ORtpDgCPJXbFCA6w&index=2 2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:30 am:

Nathan,

The sleeve puller that Steve recomended is a very handy tool to have. I made one out of a piece of 2 inch O. D. exhaust pipe.

Regards, John



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:51 am:

Sure wish I had seen this before I put the new sleeves in which now must come out to accommodate the new axle seals.

Rookie mistake made by a rookie (but at least I know I'm a rookie). :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:09 am:

wouldnt something thats neoprene flex enough to slide past the sleeves??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 06:04 am:

The inner neoprene seal is bonded to a metal washer to make sure it sits secure inside the sleeve, so you need to take the sleeve out first.
Don't buy Mac's version of the seal - some customers has had problems - it has too much contact with the axle and can be twisted apart. Chaffins in California makes a better seal, also sold by others like Lang's. Here's a picture from Lang's online catalog:

seal

Be sure to clean the axle housing as good as possible & put some gasket cement on the flat rubber surface going towards the edge of the axle pipe serving as a stop for the seal.
If you have a 1926/27 you may have an ealier type of leather seal with a metal prong washer there already - it should be possible to drag it out with a wire hook. Earlier axles had felt washers - they can be left if difficult to pull out, just push them inwards out of the way.

You should tape the keyway on your axle shaft when mounting the neoprene seal - sharp edges may destroy the seal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 06:21 am:

I think if there is that much wear on the sleeves then there's a good chance the axle is worn also. Does this axle still have the babbit thrust washers too? I think you need to tear the axle down and do it right once instead of doing it over a number of times.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 09:48 am:

I agree with Kenny. If you don't know what's in there, you'd better look. This will show you why.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 11:01 am:

I have had my differential inspected by a professional T guy and 1/2 of the axle housing, three of the bearings, all of the sleeves, one axle, and 1/2 of the differential unit itself all had to be replaced. The ring gear looked better than expected but the pinion was shot. Most issue due to an obvious catastrophic failure.

Part of it was obvious even to me but the axle was badly scored by the steel washers surrounding the thrust washer and the axle housing I would not have known to replace. I had read enough to know the babbitt thrust washers had to go even though they looked brand new.

The felt seals were in there and I removed them but honestly did not know what they were for, The only felt I knew of was in the end caps. Learning every day and enjoying it.


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