TT wheels that aren't split-rim type?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: TT wheels that aren't split-rim type?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 08:27 am:

OK guys--here's a follow up new thread to my rear TT tire post, thanks for all the support and comments on that, but now I'm going to explore a different angle before moving on with this project this spring, that being namely as the title says, is there such a thing as a rim/wheel that DOES NOT use the infamous split ring to hold the tire on the rim? Namely the widow-maker. Even though I'll take the whole wheel off and into a tire dealer, don't want anyone getting hurt. Thanks all. This forum is invaluable!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 08:31 am:

Yes you will need to change your rear wheels to 23 in instead of 20 in, and then use the 23 in split rims that are like the 21in split rims only larger, I have only 1 23 in TT rear wheel presently but I do have a pr of rear rims, one is NOS one is used danuser88@ktis.net Fulton Mo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 10:28 am:

I have 2 of the Kelsey Hayes that John is talking about.they are made different and should be safer to install.The tires,I got lucky and found 2 used 1's to fit.
I aint used them yet.I had planned on useing them for the C cab project that is behind the back burner.:>0


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 11:54 am:

Tim, there were two different manufacturers for the 23" rear wheels, Kelsey and Hayes. I'm not sure, but I don't think the two brands will interchange, but I could very well be wrong. I'm sure others will chime in here. I have some extra Kelsey wheels and rims, but I don't have a way to ship them. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin/Kris Golden on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 01:51 pm:

We got these wheels at auction last November just to keep them out of the scrap mans hands. The wheels measure 23 inches and are true split rims - not lock ring type. Are the Kelsey?

23" wheels


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 02:50 pm:

Kevin...
after looking at your two nice rusty rims without tires on them, and that there is only one "joint" in them, they look just like mine, at least now I think. If you would, go to my other thread- "rear tires for TT" and scroll a bit down for a pic of one of 'em, I'm thinking this could very well be the same type, which, in my not so educated opinion, may not be quite like the "other kind" that can literally explode on you. I'm thinking it's the "lock ring" type that are the most dangerous. Starting to feel a bit better about all this. I know it may seem I'm over-stressing this, but man, you can't be too careful with these things. Don't wanna hurt my installer, let alone myself. Plan on running my T's a good many years before I'm unable to!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Bohannon on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 03:26 pm:

Tim, I looked at your pic and they look just like mine but I could be wrong. Is your entire rim just one piece or am I seeing a separate ring that the lug flanges tighten down on. If they are all one piece you have what I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin/Kris Golden on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 03:54 pm:

Tim,
I think this is what you have. This is the 20 inch rim with a lock ring but it is not a split rim. Your split is only in the outter bead or lock ring - it is hard to tell with the tire blocking your view of most of the rim. If you crawl under the truck and look at the back side I bet you won't see a split in the inside bead. Most of the time when you hear someone refer to split rim they are talking about this, a lock ring. I have mounted tires to literally hundreds of the two and three piece lock ring type of rims without any trouble. I just hook a chain around the ring and tire so in case it lets loose it won't get too far.


20" wheels


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 04:00 pm:

If you look at the upper right here, you can see that the split goes clear across the rim. This is a true split rim, not a split ring (or snap ring) that is often mistakenly called a split rim.

I don't know about these, but Hayes clincher rims have the name HAYES stamped in the lugs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 05:32 pm:

Kevin, those appear to be Hayes rims, Kelsey rims have seperate lugs. As Steve said, they will most likely have Hayes stamped on the lugs. You may have to blast them to tell. They use a 23" tire.
Tim, your rims are like the ones in the second picture that Kevin posted. They use a 20" tire. Hope this helps. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 06:44 pm:

Tim the ones that are 23 in that I have are the Hayes, they have the 6 lug holrs attached to the split rim like a 21 in front wheel, but fronts mostly have 4 lug attachments, all 20 in snap ring rims are what every one calls Widow Makers, but if taken to a regular big truck shop, most fellows know how to handle them, they put them in a pipe cage to air up, so if they blow the cage catches them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 07:50 pm:

Well I think they should have asked for my opinion before they named these things before I was born. It is too confusing that they are both called "split rims". And both types were available in both sizes (20 and 23 inch).
Once they are properly mounted and aired up, the widow-makers are nearly as safe as any wheel and tire of comparable pressure. There are still millions of them on the road, mostly older large trucks. Usually, when you see one of the rings on the side of the road, mechanical force from the road threw it off the rim AFTER a tire blew or otherwise went flat. That is when an innocent bystander is most at risk from them, while it is flying down the road on its own.
Sadly, most of the people killed and/or maimed by them are tire shop employees that were not properly trained. I may not be into the "hundreds of times" yet, but I have been working with them myself since I was twelve years old. My father and my grandfather trained me to do it safely before that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 07:53 pm:

Kevin, Dave & John:
Upon finally getting around to crawling under the truck, I see no split on the inside. Definitely are what you have in the second pic posted Kevin.
John, once I see pics of what I think you may have to sell, I may make a change in equipment. If what you have is what appears in the first pic from Kevin, and if these are what I understand from Joe B. are one piece, this may be the best and safest way to go. I know the so-called widow-maker can be handled OK, but I may or may not stick with them. Still have to check with one more tire shop in the coming days. Two already said "NO Way", one said "maybe". And a buddy said, ehhh, we'll get 'er done!
It sure is great having such a fantastic support group!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 09:21 pm:

Here's a split ring (not split rim) TT wheel. You can see that the snap ring split (upper left) is only in the ring, not in the rim. This one has a 20 inch rim.





If you have one of these and need to have tires mounted, skip the local Wal-mart or other shop that deals mostly with cars. Find a tire dealer who sells truck and tractor tires for farm use. They'll have a cage and can mount the tires safely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 09:49 pm:

Yep, that's the one I (unfortunately) have. Thanks Steve. Boy, those look nice and new. Wish they were on my truck...quart of red paint and away we go!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 03:58 am:

I didn't mean to scare you on the other thread. A certain amount of care must be taken with them. However, once you understand that, they are reasonably safe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 09:17 am:

Thanks Wayne, not really scared, well, not too much!!--trust me, I was already half-scared before your post. You didn't make it worse, in fact, the opposite, you will be a big help should me and a friend decide to tackle it ourselves. We just want to keep our limbs! A bit of history, what few times I've even aired up this type of tire years ago, I would stand off to one side as best I could, even when only adding a few pounds 'cause it was low. For fear of something happening. Still remembering Grandma's worker losing an arm, as mentioned in one of my previous posts.And that story was 50 years ago, so it was welded in my mind securely!

Thanks for taking the time to assist. Much appreciated. And what are you doing up at 3 A.M.??? Assuming these posts are listed at the poster's own local time. Never did know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 02:20 pm:

I have been a life-long antique car guy, and generally, the earlier the better. So I will admit that I prefer the look of the earlier 23 inch wheels and tires anyway. So I hope you find what you want. I also definitely hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of driving that truck! Model Ts can be a lot of fun and provide a connection to the world and our history in a way few other things can.
Good luck!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 03:35 pm:

My brother was working in a tire shop about 30 years ago when a guy blew one of those tires up without putting the wheel in the cage that was in the shop for that purpose. The ring blew off and killed the guy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 04:38 pm:

Steve, you are correct about the split rim-split ring thing, almost. Some split ring rims(which are actually flat base rims as opposed to dropped center rims) had a slit across them also. I'm talking about later truck rims as in the '50s-'60s and such. I have seen a few of them, don't recall if they were Firestone or Goodyear or what. That being said, I have no idea as to why they were made that way and I never found anybody that knew either. It sure wasn't for using a rim jack! Dave


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