Ed's wood frame in the early stage. This is not a kit, all wood is made from patterns of what was left from the car. As of 1/9/2013.
Very interesting. Please keep the updates coming as available.
Fellows, It may interest you to know that the 26-7 T tourers made in the Geelong Ford factory in Australia all had base timberwork like that, and the side panels were framed also.
Allan from down under.
I thought Ed sent you a complete car! I hope you told him you sold the engine and wheels to buy the wood for the frame.
All joking aside. Please keep the rebuild pictures coming. I enjoy seeing the progress of a rebuild.
Dennis, I haven't told him you bought that stuff, I thought I'd direct your questions to him...teehee ~~
Drivers side rear quarter pillars are done for now.
Quarter panel frames ready to mount and skin.
I would love to see more progress on this car. I love wooden bodies. Keep 'em coming!
I can't tell you how good it is to see this car finally getting worked on. Dad and I were going to start on it when I turned 16. That was 31 years ago. I never thought I would be seeing pictures of it on a computer, in my own shop 100 miles from it.
As of today.
A couple of questions slightly OT. How did you determine where the sill plates were supposed to be and how did you determine the thickness of the sill plates? I have a body that I am trying to get started on and those questions I am not sure of yet. Thanks.
Doug, the frame sills are 5/4" thick. I was able to get most the old wood frame off good enough for a pattern. The picture above is going through the fitting process. I want the doors to be as snug as possible so nothing will get fastened until the doors are mounted and then the final fit will begin. You can email me if you need more detailed information on the base frame and such.
Comparing the two 27's upholstry..the one on the left came from my car, a early built 27. It measures 9" and tapers to 8" wide I believe it had flaps. The one on the right is from Ed's 27 and measures 11" wide with no sign of a flap.
Don, I agree, don't fasten the brackets to the sills until the doors are fitted. Good clamps hold everything together until time for permanent screws. It is surprising how much fitment is needed in the fordor bodies to get everything square and matching up. Even using this method I still needed to plug a few screw holes with glue and chop sticks to get a everything just right.
Dale, how is your project coming? It would be neat to see some of your pictures. Ed's car is
going pretty good but even using the old wood for patterns it is tricky. Some pieces have curves and twists that they shouldn't have. Its a fun challenge though.
Another of the rear panel rewooding.
Rear window skin and wood.
You make it look so easy!
Oh,oh....maybe I better slow down. I do enjoy the wood work and with tolerances of a 1/4" it is much easier than the boats I worked on in the past. Also Wayne having just restored the identical car with NO patterns to go by, Mr Ed's is a piece of cake.
Thanks for sharing the progress with us. I enjoy seeing and learning about all the different cars in different stages of undress.
That car is coming together fast and looks great.
Ed did you tell Don that you wanted to drive it this weekend yet?
Kick plate sills fab'd...will wait to mount once the doors are hung....NOBODY should have this much fun, it just ain't right !!
After three days of fitting the entire car torn down to the base frame for sealing and painting. I can't sleep at night having this much fun...just can't. All ends are sealed with West Epoxy. The frame is upside down on the frame. The paint is still wet in these pictures.
Beautiful work! I hope you are having fun working on it. It is a wonderful thing if two people can get pleasure out of one car getting done right.
I have built a couple truck bodies, re-wooded several speedsters including two original boat-tail bodies. What you are doing here looks so nice and so well done. I am going to say it again. You make it look easy!
Drive carefully, and do enjoy! W2
Thank you Wayne, you always have a kind word. It is appreciated.
I have some idea of the detail that you have to go to in achieving a good result when you are rebuilding these bodies. I had to almost completely rebuild every component of the framing on our 1924 Canadian Fordor over twenty-five years ago. You are to be commended for you excellent workmanship. Regards, John
I have seen your pictures John and it is amazing to me how you did that. While I work off the skin you seemed to do the framing and then the skinning. Makes me look a bit lazy. I also checked out your car on the profile it is something to be proud of. Absolutely gorgeous.
Thank you for the compliments it is very much appreciated believe me !
Thank you also for your compliments.
I had all the old framing to work from albeit in a very bad state. Like you I had to keep trying the panels as I progress with the framing. I think it is the only way to be certain everything is going to fit properly. You can probably tell the climate here is pretty good most of the year. I had plenty of room in my shed ,but I found the light better outdoors.
I have to ask. What was used to clean the metal for the 27 Fordoor.
Was the metal bead blasted, soda blasted or ?
It sure looks nice and almost as nice as the wood work!
Thats funny, the three years between our models and it looks like they eliminated two stringers on the rear panel. Your dash setup is different and I can't tell from the pictures if the front pillars are the same. The steel is almost identical though. So John I can see this post is reminding you of the fun you had birthing your beauty. It may mean you need to start another ~~~Thanks for sharing the pictures, it is so cool to see these Fordors undressed. You have to be proud of the project, it turned out so nice!
John you know what I'm looking at in that last picture don't you? Yep, the line going down the doors and around the back. That tells the story about how much work you put in to that car. It is straight and true. Perfect !
John Kuehn I don't blast anything, I don't want to take the chance of having it ruined. The parts are very hard to replace. I use the abrasive poly discs and a wire wheel on a 4" grinder to do everything. Smaller wire and abrasive pads for the tight spots. Then I use Metalblast (liquid) to etch and clean the metal. At that point I use Automotive Grey Rustbullet. It helps fill any pits in the metal and will self level to a nice finish. It also is nice because it takes the place of using epoxy-primer which can be quite expensive. So, two coats of Rustbullet then the feathering agent (bondo) and another coat of Rustbullet over the feathering agent to seal the feathering and you are ready to spray high-build primer. The cost of the Rustbullet is equal if not cheaper than having it blasted and no risk of damage. Just my way of doing it...but I really like that product. Thanks for asking.
I don't want to be seen to be taking over this thread with my pictures, but I guess it is as a good place as any to compare the earlier and later Fordor bodies. My car has wooden framed doors ( pre. 1925 ) and as you can tell the skins are aluminium , along with the upper quarter & back panel. The cowl and back tub are steel.
The pillars are quite distinct on the1926-27 Fordor, having what I think is called a Coupe Pillar.
Here is the framing for the pillars and windshield area of our car.
They made quite a lot of changes by the time the 26-27 Models were being produced. That area you mentioned with the stringers was one. Another is the two brackets you have to tie the back end of the side runners to the back cross piece. Our car has a diagonal-brace which also acts as a mounting point for the rear chassis crossmember. Because the 26-27's had the larger crossmember that diagonal brace was eliminated. I think also some of the brackets in that rear floor area shown in the following picture could be different to the later ones as well.
I must admit Don that it gave me great satisfaction bringing the car back to what I have now. That was over twenty-five years ago . I don't think I could tackle another one now. I am very much enjoying the Fordor and the comforts of owning a closed car.
Best regards, John
John, thanks for posting the pictures, again it is interesting to compare the cars. The wood in your car is by far more complete than these Michigan cars. The climate here is conducive to rot. Both Fordors were missing the top wood and anything below then roof was destroyed. I had hoped to save some of the original wood on Ed's car but it was easier and quicker to just replace it. The body brackets on your car are slightly different in that they mount to the sill frame were the '27 mounts sit on top of the sill frame. Either way I'm glad you posted these for comparison. Knowing how much work goes in to restoring these classics helps measure the amount of pride one ends up with when the people admire the finished project. That is what its all about...
Thank you Don. Nice talking to you. Best regards, John
Well today it was put your top on Momma...
After plowing 4ft drifts of snow of course...
I got a new phone and the camera kind of zuks!
Hah !! Unfortunately, nobody ever falls out of the top...burma shave.
Trued, glued and screwed.
Looking great Don. I remember that stage very well. Very satisfying. I thought you might like to see this factory picture of a Fordor being fitted out with the slats for the top. Notice that the two outside slats are cut off at the first bow. It was that picture I used as a guide when I was doing my car. A lot of my original slats were missing or broken. Regards, John
Thanks John, this top kit had some issues. The cross bows varied more than a 1/2" in height. I ended up planing the tops on two of them to get the right curve and also had to add 1/4" shim length way to two others to get the shape of the top correct. So my end result was to narrow the spacing of the slats so as to not have a bulge running front to back when the top material is put on. I may yet install some short slats but after checking the curve side to side it seems to be correct without them. This kit looked like a new hire made it. Several other problems with the way it fit. The rear corner curved pieces were cut wrong to the grain and were broken when received. I tried to epoxy the pieces but because of the way the cut was to the grain it had no strength at all. Had to create my own to get the rear corners right. The front pillars on Ed's car protrude out much further then the pillars on my car did which spread the front of the top out almost an inch more. There was no way to change that so I just had to work with it. Just the minor differences that come along that keep it interesting.
John you can see the shim pieces in the left photo. The second and third bow was way off, the fourth bow was way to high. This kit would have looked like waves on the ocean without some creative carving. Really dissapointing for the money they get now days. The kit I got for my car was dead on and well built, this one did not compare.
Thank you Don. I had to make up all of my top myself. The problem here in Australia it is not that easy to order what you want.
I am not sure what kits were available there in the States twenty five years ago. Another problem I had was there wasen't any other Fordor Sedans I could compare what I was doing with as well. Very few Closed cars were imported to Australia. Regards, John
Nice work, I was pondering building the whole thing but was concerned about the contour being off. The doors have no tweaking if it is not right on. And I was also looking at saving Ed some money for the time it would have taken. As it turned out, having my car for a pattern would not have helped much other than getting it close.
The joys of a challenge, not as joyful as getting it done.
I still say that you make it look easy! The only four-door sedans I have worked on have had solid original wood. They were still tough enough.
Wayne, having only restored one Fordor and in the process of restoring Ed's, I guess I don't know the difference. I am surprised that what worked on one car doesn't work on the other. The purest would have a negative opinion of how I'm working this out I'm sure. My thoughts are to concentrate on the strength and the finished result. I have to wonder if the two cars were actually built by two different companies and with the kits being built by a third, well lets just say I know of no way around some modifying to make things fit. The width of the front pillars determines the fit of the windshield, yet the top kit came up short. I wanted some overhang of the top to the top of the doors so that rain would not flow into the door opening. That may be considered wrong by some but it only makes sense to me to protect the interior from the elements as best I can. I think the guys that have rewooded these beasts can relate to it.
If there was more information out there about these cars it would help some but I doubt it would be applicable to every car. One example with Ed's car is the rear steel panels. On the driver side the top of the lower half is flush where they bolted the three steel panels together, but on the passenger side the panels are 1/4" off from being flush. That means the bottom of the left rear quarter doesn't fit correctly around the base frame and the rear passenger door does not align with the front passenger door. Yet the half round body trim pieces were installed to align with the rear door. My point is I don't know how you can get away from making some changes to the original build if you want it to finish half way decent.
Fun, fun, fun....the saga continues.
I am enjoying this article and feeling your pain with misaligned wood parts. I purchased a kit for my '22 Coupe and had to rework many of the parts to make it fit. I also had to make many parts that were missing or poorly made. I considered making the entire frame from scratch but just didn't have the time so I went the kit route. Keep posting the progress. Great job.
Thanks Dennis, I appreciate you backing me up on that. I realize that the photos and story is a repeat of what I did on my car last winter so many here at the forum have seen it before. For Ed this is a whole new experience because it is his car. Besides, while Ed and his kids are up at Mt Bohemia skiing I want him to know the work goes on....teeeeheee !!!
I for one have enjoyed following both your posts. You have been much better than I with the foto documentation. You have been a great help on my Fordor rebuild both on your threads and answering questions on mine. Look forward to seeing and driving with these cars on tours.
Well THANKS Dale, misery loves company....just kiddin but it is fun to have the opportunity to help others and only fair because others have helped me throughout these projects. Now if I could only find a masseuse.
Yes Don, we are skiing at Mt Bohemia. Well the kids are skiing, and I am doing whatever you call a 47 year old crippled with anklyosing spondilitis and psoriatic arthritis does, when it is seven degrees, and he is at a mountain where all the runs are triple black diamonds. It is more like torture, with brief rest periods. Sure wish I was 17 again.
Do what all Yoopers do, get in the sauna or better yet find yourself a hot tub. OR...go to Lauriem and get a nice hot pastie...thats the ticket !!! And while you're up there shop around for a gas tank to throw in your limo...
After some hammering, cleaning and welding the floor board mounts and seat riser are back where they belong...
Todays project, before and after.
From Don this morning
The floor boards are fab'd and finished with coat one of Sikkens. Will wait for the engine to cut the pedals in.
What you are doing here, will I hope, encourage other people for years to come to tackle four door sedans, both Ford and non-Ford.
My dad used to often tell me to "be careful cutting that. If you cut it too long, there may not be anything you can do about it. But if you cut it too short, you can always scab another piece onto it." (Sometimes you have to let that one roll around for a minute.)
Trimming, shimming and shaving. And many other little tricks to make it fit. It is a challenge. One not meant for everybody. But sedans and other complicated bodies can be done by a little persistence and simple problem solving.
The final overall look and fit is what becomes important. Not whether or not the floorboards are perfectly square.
I find some things amusing. Having been trained as a machinist where everything is measured to the thousandths of an inch. I also worked as a carpenter on low-income housing. Anything within an inch was close enough. (I have walked into rooms where I could tell at a glance which end of the room was taller.)
You could wind up a half inch off from one side to the other, and as long as all the doors open and close nicely, no one would notice.
Again, beautiful work you are doing! I have never been good at keeping photo records of my restorations. Thank you very much for that also.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Thanks Wayne, I did under cut the battery cover a bit. On my car I didn't do that and it resulted in the trap door sticking rather tight on humid days. So, on Ed's car I shaved it down 1/8" to hopefully eliminate that problem. I will put some felt (or something similar) on the edges to prevent rattling while speeding down the road. Of course this is the stuff nobody will see any way once the carpet is installed, but I like the looks of the natural wood grain. I hope Ed does also...
I have been following the rebuilding progress and reading all the posts about it. You are doing a fantastic job. I can't wait to see it complete.
I look forward to seeing your progress. It is certainly bringing back some memories. The battery cover and matching floor boards on our car had a rebated edge on the inboard side so the two would interlock, and I guess to secure that side of the trap door. I am interested to know if that is how the 26-27 Fordor was done. Our car is Canadian and could be different to the U.S. cars.
Best regards, John
John, there is no lap lock on either '27 rear floor board. Instead they had a piece of steel trim to hold it down and the battery door rested on a center board and a routed trap. Note, no support on the forward or rear edge. Both cars center support board had failed. I put a support lip on all four edges of the battery door to help eliminate that. I realize this is not the original design but it will give solid support of the door so it doesn't fail again.
From what I've been able to piece together, the half lap joint between the floor boards and battery trap door was used roughly between 1923 and sometime in 1924. They then eliminated the half lap joint and just butted them together. It's possible the change was made for the 1925 model year. The early 26 cars had individual boards on the passenger's side. In mid 26 they changed it to a "1 piece" design which was actually three boards nailed together with two cleats.
There are no drawings for any of these parts and the Record of Changes don't provide much information. That's why I can't say for sure the exact date they made the change. It also gets confusing as they kept changing the names of the boards. What started out as the #7 floor board in 1923 ended up as the #5 floor board by 1927. The ROC's indicate that on the passenger's side they used two identical boards to fill the space. I've seen cars with 2, 3 and even 4 boards. If there are two boards there is usually one wider one and one narrower one as in John's photos. If there are 3 or 4 then they are usually random widths. It appears that they were using whatever they had available to fill the hole.
Thats interesting information David, it matches what I have seen with these two Fordors. I appreciate your input. Both of these cars had a steel piece of trim to hold the rear of the battery door. The trim size appears to be of random length. Ford probably knew the T was coming to a end and used up what resources that were laying around. Just my guess, no real knowledge of the period.
I have not seen that piece of tin holding down the battery trap door. On the car's I've inspected the door just sat there and the carpet was the only thing holding it in place.
It actually makes no sense to use different size pieces. The ROC indicates there should be two identical boards there. If you were making hundreds of these cars a day, I would think that would be the way you would want to do it. You would have the pieces already made, and since they are the same you just grab two pieces and screw them in. Using the random widths they have to either choose pieces to fit, or cut and fit the individual pieces for each car. Seems like a lot more work. Making one piece bigger and the other smaller also means you have to have stock two pieces - but there is no part number for two pieces. I don't know the reasons behind it. What the documentation says and what they actually did don't always match up. I found the similar thing on the 14 touring rear floor boards. Some use 2 boards, some use 3 and some use 4. In this case it could be the different body manufacturers.
Someone on here posted information about an edger machine, that would take random scraps of wood, and match them into useable panels. That would explain some of the boards I have seen in these cars that had tapered pieces joined together with tongue and groove joints.
David, I'm in no position to explain other than these two cars appeared to still have the original rear floor boards. They both had the same size doors with the passenger side screwed down to the frame sill. They both had that piece of steel to keep the battery door from lifting from the wind and possibly from bumps in the road. I will take some more pictures of the original wood from both cars and post them shortly. It is interesting to see the similar and the difference of the two. Like Ed says they did have ways of making square footage out of odd sized scraps.
Could very well be original. The few cars I looked at didn't have them, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have had them. I'm aware of the machine Ed's talking about. It's call a Linderman machine (or something like that). It creates a dovetail joint to join two pieces of wood together to make a wider one. Many of the floor boards have those joints. I wasn't referring to different width pieces of wood to make up a single board. What I was referring to is that the documentation states there should be two individual boards - both identical - to make up the passenger's side floor. Doing it that was is much easier than trying to piece together random widths to fill the space, or putting in some random widths then having to cut one specifically to fill the gap. However, for some reason, they went the random width route.
Thank you everyone. Very interesting! I have a bit on today. I will respond properly later on this evening, ( our time ). Thanks Dave for your contribution. With your knowledge on Model T floor boards it is always enlightening. Best regards, John
David, here are the two '27 fordor rear passenger floor boards. Note the difference in size. Mine is on the left, Ed's is to the right. I was unable to find the piece of metal for mine (its here somewhere) but this shows the metal strip that was on Ed's car. Mine may be the same size but without tearing the barn apart to find it, I recall it had three screw holes. Note also the odd shape T and G boards on Ed's board. My front boards were completely made up of angled pieces put together. Pretty cool !! I believe my board is missing one edge strip, which might make it the same width as Ed's.
Here is a bit better picture of the front floor boards on my '27. Note the tapered T and G boards.
Thank you for posting your pictures of the old floor boards. I wish I still had mine. They had to go when we moved over ten years ago unfortunately. I duplicated ours as near to the original's as possible. I can remember being very fussy about that, right down to cleaning and using the original screws. Regards, John
And a couple of links to previous threads.
Well..hmmm...and I'm supposed to duplicate this ?
This is a picture of the floorboard off Ed's car.
Note the different joints used. This is not pretty !!
What you have are three individual boards which make up that piece. Each board has a half lap joint where it meets the board next to it. Each of the 3 boards are made up of several pieces. They used a Linderman machine to join together narrower pieces to make the wider ones.
I've also seen these where they have used a simple tongue and groove joint to make up the wider boards. It's a non-standard size - I think it's 1/8" wide by 1/4" deep. I had to have a custom cutter made for my shaper to cut the tongue. The Linderman style seems more common on the 26-27 cars and the tongue and groove on the earlier ones.
When I make these I make each board from a single piece. That way I don't have to deal with those other joints, glue up, etc. Makes life much easier. All I need to do is put the half lap joints on the edges and nail them together.
How thick are those? Most floor boards are 9/16" thick but I have written on my sketch for these that they are 5/8". I think the 9/16" is correct.
David, the passenger side rear floor board is 5/8" board. The driver side battery hatch is between 1/2" and 9/16" depending on which board you measure....the journey continues.
Fitting, seems to be going well.
Don, looks really good! KB
Really impressive. (side note, i did work on a car where it appeared some of the wood had been through the linderman machine twice)
Don, Thank you so much for posting all the information about your 27 four door. This is a big help to me. The project is important to me and your photos are very helpful. I will be laying out the parts starting this weekend. 27 years later I'm finding, its never to late. At 70 these old bones ache a little but are still working.will forward pictures of my progress..thank you.and thanks to all the others who posted...Mike
Michael Robinson, if you need something specific just ask I will try to help you out. Thanks for the kind words, its a nice thing !
Hi Rex, just currently doing smalls...nothing exciting. The weather has not been conducive to painting yet. Also, decided to do some work on my car. This week looks more like spring temps instead of snow and cold so hopefully the priming can begin. Thanks for asking !!
Boy after looking at the nice work Don is doing I now wish I had kept the 25 Fourdor I inherited from my Grandfather. I kept the 24 Coupe he had because the wood was in better shape.
The 21 Touring rebuild is keeping me busy though but Dons pictures make me kick myself for selling the 25 Fourdoor! Oh well!
Good work Don! It inspires me.
THAT is a very nice complement John, thank you so much! However the reason I work on these Fordors is, I've kicked myself to the point I can't sit down. Fordor's .... Gheezzz ~
My first official car show yesterday. Chugged the ole Lizzy 15 miles to Freeland for the annual Walleye Festival. It turned out to be the first nice day of the year and around 160 cars showed up. I'm guessing that 40% of them were originals. They judged two groups, "antiques and hot rods". Most of the cars were done by pros, rebuilt and painted. I'll be jiggered that the judges handed me a third place trophy. I think its time they drug test these judges...just say'n ~
Whoever envisioned Model Ts lasting 100 years or more, much less their manufacturer, Henry Ford? The answer is "No one." Wood lasting 100+ years? No one would have thought so. Your restoration work on these cars is outstanding.
Thanks Max, I'm humbled...just humbled.
Always enjoy seeing pics of your Fordor Don. One of my favorite body styles.
Great work Don, and a just reward. I have "sat on the fence" for quite a while with this thread and I have totally enjoyed it. I have learned so much not only about closed cars but about the restoring these rare & complicated bodies. Thank you very much.
Thank you Gary, thanks Dave. Ed's car will be getting more attention here shortly. I've been slacking a bit doing other things typical of spring time in the north. My Fordor took its longest trip yet yesterday to the car show. The 15 miles seemed like driving the length of route 66. But the return was much more fun. I didn't know how the car would handle or even if I'd have a breakdown. The shakedown cruise was flawless and the old 87 year old Lizzy seemed to be happy to be on the road again. I was amazed at how well it handled, even some rather deep pot holes in the road didn't seem to be a big deal. There is always satisfaction with the work one performs...but I really sensed the car was happy to be alive again. Weird as it may sound ... I sensed it.
Great thread, great work, and great photos! Congratulations on the trophy Don!
Hap l9l5 cut off
Thank you Hap, I love your profile picture...now I'm sure that is you....right?
Love this thread, I visit Midland quite often. Maybe I'll see you at a car show sometime!
You guys should see Don's work in person. The pictures just don't do it justice. I have worked some metal, but Don is a natural. I was ready to toss the front fenders and and splash aprons, and buy a pair from Rootleib or Mike Peterson. Don ironed them out. His work on the wood framing is flawless. This car will be much stronger structurally than when it was built, and last ten times as long. His knowledge of materials comes from years of wood boat experience.
Have enjoyed this thread immensely. Would it be safe to venture that when these cars were new, the fit/finish may not have been as perfect as we think they "should" be? That might explain the need to custom fit the wood frames so much to make everything line up. At the pace Henry was ordering bodies, some body shops quality standards may not have been as good as others.
Wonderful! You certainly earned that trophy! Congratulations.
And, go ahead. Send the men in white. Bring the butterfly nets. Ready the padded cell. Cars do have feelings. They have bad days. And they enjoy a pleasant drive. Especially with someone they know cares.
Well now the pressure is on, truly appreciate the kind words. The forum is a wonderful place to get reenergized when doing a long term project. As far as the car show goes, the trophy is Lizzies, not mine. It wasn't a first place or second. It was third but represents a piece of history brought back from the dead. The car got some well deserved attention and comments from all age groups. They were looking at every detail of what 1927 was about. A time machine for their thoughts and imagination. I think that was the neatest experience of the day. I also had a introduction to a forum member Dick Harris and we had a real nice visit. These inventions of the pioneers of a time gone long ago have to be preserved and displayed. Not for bragging of "Look what I got" but rather "Look what they built".
Body and top baking in the sun. Almost ready to prime.
Hey Ed, you are in your prime~~
Man those fenders fit GREAT! Mine I am going to have to modify big time to close the gaps between then fender, splash, and running board. Nice job!
Thanks Travis, the trick is to not bolt anything to the underbody until all the other fender bolts are in place loosely. Then you can clamp the parts together and start fastening things to the underbody frame and the frame itself. If that makes sense??
Makes sense, after I shim my body to get the hood to fit I will start bringing my gaps together.
My passenger side fender fits good but the drivers side is a problem - you can stick your finger through the gap between the front fender and the inside corner of the running board and splash apron.
What I am going to have to do to get it to fit is remove 3 of the running board bolts and shove the running board in about 1/2 inch on the front and then fit the fender, running board and splash apron together to close the gap then re-drill the running board bracket holes, then use a cutter and cut the fender on the outer edge in a v shape and tap in the side to fit and weld it back up.
Oh man, after all of that work it might look 1/2 as nice as yours!
Both Fordor's were a "forced controlled argument" and some mounting holes had to be reamed out to get them to fit. If you are using reproduction parts its a given that you'll have to move or resize some holes. It reminds me of a song awhile back...."Bend me, shape me any way you want to, as long as you love me...its alright"
Don, your car is beautiful-- what a great job you did. I look forward to seeing it in person. Joe Frankenmuth, Mi.
Joe, are you related to the Stearns in Grayling?
no I'm not related to the Stearns in Grayling as far as I know and have not met them.
All my Srearns family hail from The west coast--my dad rode from Oregon to Mich on a HD motorcycle in the 20's to go to work for Dow Chemical Co.
Wow, Oregon to Michigan in the 20's!!
I asked about the Stearns family, because Jim Stearns started a well drilling operation here that is now run by his grandson. Jim passed before I moved here from Saginaw, but I sure wish I had met him. He built his first drilling rig himself.
Joe, thank you...when are you going to stop in? Must be time for a club meeting here soon. I would like to pick your brain on a few things...
Hi Don, that sounds like a plan---maybe a mini model T tour too. I would invite you to set it up with the gang. Joe
Ed just called he wants his T back the way you found it!
Great job Don, once again I am enjoying the progress reports and photos of the rebuild. Beautiful workmanship.
Yeah, I know Dennis that is why caller ID is a wonderful thing. I just can't get myself to take a sledge hammer to those front fenders.
These are cell phone shots, the lens makes them look "grainy".
Wow! that is beautiful. I can't wait to see it all together
The latest on Ed's Fordor...everything is painted and now its clean up time. Tons of wet sanding and cut/polishing.
Should be done by now??
Well it is getting close. I thought I'd run into you Rex at the Antique Fest in Midland two weeks ago...met a ton of T'ers from all around. My Lizzie took the "Pro's Pick" award there, too funny~
Didn't make it this year, hopefully I will bring a car to the Old Car Festival!
Thanks for the ride last weekend! Ed's car looks great.
I finally have an Internet connection. I am sitting on a barstool in the woods next to highway F30 and can get a connection if I can tolerate the insects long enough.
Rex, no things have slowed a bit. Hope to have it done this late summer or fall.
Tom, thank you for the visit. It was a real thrill to think you'd take the time to stop in.
Lizzy enjoyed having you along for the ride. I brought her to the cottage this week and she sure is getting the attention!
I forgot to mention in my posting that your car looks a lot better than Ed's. For one thing, I like the wheels on your car better. I just don't think ten inch caster wheels look right under a T. I also think your upholstery makes the car look a lot nicer. As I've said before, your workmanship and swiftness in getting Lizzie on the road puts me to shame.
I know exactly what you're saying about having a T around the cottage. In the past I've taken my car through the woods and also driven through our small town up north much to the delight of the locals.
I am back in town now. My mother made me return all of the shingles, roofing tar, and associated merchandise back to the store. For some reason, she didn't want her chubby gray haired kid on the second story fixing her roof. My son agreed with her because he knew he would be up there with me.
What is the shade of green you used on Don's car?
You could of told your mother that you bought the shingles for her and just wanted to save her a trip to the supply house.
Dennis, the green color is "Commercial Green". I do know that this car was green when Dad bought it in 1960. Hardly any trace of color was left, as of december 2012. It had been indoors since Dad bought it, and exposed to sunlight every 4th of july from 1994 until 2009. And the summer of 2011, for a few hours. The 100th birthday for Chevrolet tour passed through Grayling, and stopped at H&B Auto Electric for an hour or so. I drove the Fordor over and parked it alongside all the off-brand stuff.
As luck would have it, the guy in the yard where I picked up the shingles was working his first day. He grabbed my invoice and pointed to a pile of shingles. It turned out what I loaded was the wrong color and also the wrong style. While sorting all this out, my mother managed to find a local contractor to do the work. He ended up using the plywood and lumber I had purchased but I stayed off the roof. When I went to return the stuff, the guy at the desk told me to say no more since his mother is three years older than mine and equally the worrier.
Tom, I am looking forward to meeting you at the OCF. Dad would be pleased to know that you gave his car the thumbs up.
What a fun week, I took many people for a chug in Lizzy. They all had the same reaction to the ride...a frozen smile from ear to ear. One guy just kept repeating "this is special, this is really special". Seems he had never been in a car that old and he had no idea that driving back then was a bit more mechanical than now days. He was so grateful to have the experience, he said he will never forget it.
Man, that is what its all about! Share the fun and watch the reactions of the old time machine. Take people were they have never gone before...back in time.
Tom, it may have been a very good idea to stay off that roof. This fourth of july we had planned a family gathering at the cottage as we have for the past years. All within the same hour on the morning of the fourth, my mother 90 years young took a fall in her driveway and needed Mobile Medical Response to assist her and check for injuries. Meanwhile, my sister in law aproximately 3 miles away took a 8 ft fall off a ladder and landed with a smack on the driveway breaking her pelvis and fracturing some ribs. She spent two days in the hospital. Needless to say our plans to gather didn't turn out as we hoped. The morel of the story is our minds tend to forget what our body's will remind us of...
Just fitting the windshield complete with the new safety glass. A little bit too snug, will need another 1/16 inch for the gasket to seal.
Ok here's a good one. I ordered new upper window seals for Ed's car. These are the "F" channel that attaches to the lower outside of the door windows to keep the rain out. On my '27 all four doors had slots to mount these on the door. On Ed's '27 the front doors have the mounts but both rear doors do not. The problem is there is no way to get a drill in there to mount the "F" channel to seal the rear door windows....whats a Joe to do?? Any suggestions on this one would be appreciated or I may have to resort to using a good adhesive.
Top picture is of the rear door mounting area.
The Middle picture is of the front door mounting area.
Bottom picture is of the "F" channel seal.
I looked at my Fordor tonight and got a surprise. Only the drivers door has the open bottom slots you show. Another mystery I suppose.
I have just finished the restoration of a 1925 Fordor, body number HP1924, (clearly stamped in the left body sill). It has the all steel doors made by Budd. Budd is stamped in each door. There are no provisions for the upper window seals.
Don, could the rubber that I posted above be used there? It looks to be shaped so that one side hooks the metal edge, and the other side seals against the glass?
I was able to mount the F channel on all four doors and the fit was dead on. I guess I'm puzzled as to why my car had the slots on all the doors yet this one did not. Ed, that seal you linked looked like it might have worked but it seems like it would have pulled off easily if it wasn't cemented on.
If anyone knows what Ford originally had there, if anything at all it would be interesting to know.
Thanks in advance...
I know the 24 and 25 Coupes used those strips on both the wood and all steel doors. I'm pretty sure the steel doors are the same for the Fordor and Coupe. I just checked two doors I have and they both have the slots for that strip. I don't have any rear doors for a Fordor to check.
I always thought that the Fordor continued to use those strips all the way through 27 - but I haven't actually researched it.
The 26 Coupe and Tudor used a different setup. They eliminated that strip and incorporated a lip into the rubber strip where the glass sits in the bottom channel. That is the piece which Ed posted. The bottom of the glass fits into the U shaped part which then fits into the channel at the bottom of the window. The lip hangs over the outside edge to make the seal against the door. I don't know if at some point they changed the rear doors of the Fordor to use this setup???
Whoa Dave thanks for that response. As I earlier mentioned, my car had the slots on all four doors. Now that you mention the rubber seal in the glass channel, I found no sign of that in the channels. They all had the same cloth/rubber seating wrap. However, that could be what was used and the seal is gone. Seems like their would be some remnants inside the door though. Thanks so much for the insight!
Don, the way you have done it, is better than it came from Ford, as with all of your other work.
Thanks Ed, I don't believe anyone can say its wrong when my car had them.
No worry. I don't expect anyone to get past the green paint. They all were black, after all.
More progress by Mr. Booth.
Is that Tail/ Stop light original period, or is it nos? If original what kind of bulb's does it use?
Looking really nice Don and Ed. I will have to see that wiring up close cause that's what I'm working on next. Don, you guessed the weather right for the AuGres Cruise Night, it poured for a half hour before the cruise started, cleared out later in town for the contests, but it's raining again..Your car would have gotten soaked. The coolest car there was a Chitty Chitty Bang Bang car built from a 1920 Page by a craftsman from the Standish area. No Model T's, just one Model A that they couldn't get to shut down..That low octane Michigan summer blend gas I think..Keep up the great work, Jim Derocher AuGres, MI
More beautiful work! Thanks for the update.
I like that brake light by the way.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Mark, the tail light is original, the STOP light is a aftermarket add on according to Tom Miller mostly from Dearborn. The Stop light has a two connection plug with a single filament bulb. The light combination has a problem, it is very heavy for the mount and this one needed to be welded where the stress from the weight had cracked the mount. The height of the two lights contributed to that also.
JD, I really wanted to make that cruise and was hoping the weather would straighten out so I could at least make the show this Sunday. But, mutha nature has different plans and it looks like another day of rain and thunderstorms. That is why we call it "Bitchagain" (get it? Michigan/Bitchagain )
You can see the cracks in the mount just below the tail light from being whipped back and forth. (left picture)
The STOP light on the right was in the same box Ed had dropped off. I know nothing about that light, maybe someone could chine in on it?
Don and I got the axles back under it, got it back on it's wheels saturday morning. Today, I tore the engine the rest of the way apart, and found the babbitt to be in fine shape, and the cylinders not tapered.
Going to begin driving it next week, eh?
Actually, I think you are trying for the longest, and one of the most interesting, threads of the year.
Wayne, I took my 8 year old son for a ride in Don's before we left. It was good motivation to complete this car. Don's car runs very well
Ok this morning I decided to put the car together and worry about the engine down the road. The "forced arguement" of fitting went rather well. Knocking on wood, the fit was about as good as it could be. This family heirloom is starting to look as it should again. I started with the rear and worked forward. The opposite of when doing the body. The doors are nice and solidly snug. Next will be to relentlously bug Edwardo for the interior.
Some more pic's....
Thanks, Don! I did discover that the crankshaft is not the correct EE one, but an earlier one. It is in nice shape, standard journals, and I will have it magnafluxed. Probably run it, unless someone has a standard EE for sale?
Ed - If the earlier crankshaft you referred to above is the kind with the diamond shaped throws between the journals, I wouldn't use it. Your Fordor is really, really nice and deserves better than a diamond shaped crank. I've broken 2 of them and from now on if I ever need another crank, I'll use a Skat. As many of us know, breaking a crankshaft is no fun.....better to do it right the first time.
Just my opinion...
It is an AA crank.
Don painted the "underpinnings" with Rust Bullet Blackshell today. The front hubs still had the original black on them, couldn't bring myself to remove it.
Fine lookin' booty.
Gee thanks Ed, "Booty" was a high school nickname that was attached to me for years. I'll take the complement but don't fall in love cuz I'd hate to break your heart!....
I had the wheels blasted. Don is painting them with Rust Bullet. They will be black.
Well, the interior kit was ordered 4 months ago and still haven't seen it. Cartouche must be having issues....
Don that looks great, what type of paint did you use for the fenders?
I got an email from Mac's friday, so I called them this morning. The interior is supposed to ship today. My bank had changed names, and issued me a new debit card since the order was placed. No promise time on the top kit yet, they are waiting for the correct material.
Thanks Ed, as you can tell I need something to occupy my winter blues with.
Spencer, Ed's heirloom is painted with OMNI Jet Black 9000/9600 single stage acrylic enamel. It is good paint when it comes to blending and also cut/polishing. Thanks for asking.
I thought "something to do this winter" was why you were also restoring someone's coupe?
Looking good though!
Drive carefully, and do enjoy the Christmas and New Year Holidays! W2
Merry Christmas W2 !
The coupe is actually ready for painting but I can't do it. The barn is stuffed to the gills with Model T's and a motorhome. The current temperature this morning is -2. I set the place up for doing the interior of Ed's car and put myself in a corner on doing much else. Thus, waiting for this interior kit has got me in limbo. I hate limbo. Limbo serves no purpose here. Limbo in the winter results in more inches around the waist and a fatter turkey neck...hate limbo.
Merry Christmas Don, the weather certainly has kept my T's off the road and a list of home improvements has kept me out of the garage. Nice to see the progress on Ed's project.
Merry Christmas to you Bill, I just saw the county truck going around chipping the dogs off the hydrants....its cold out there !!!
-18F here this am.
Oh burr....it looks like a long winter ahead. We still have a 1/2" of ice coating on everything and the poor trees are grunting and groaning under the weight of it all. Merry Christmas Edwardo !!
Mother natures Christmas tree lights...
Meanwhile. Here in Califunny. One of the mildest Decembers ever on record. My $77 overnight delivery (within the state) UPS tracking is currently marked "may be delayed due to weather". (?????) Limbo. The story of my life.
Merry Christmas Don Booth! And everyone!
Drive carefully, and enjoy the New year! W2
What was ordered in September arrived in January....let the interior work begin.
Put an extra log or two on the fire Don, after the snow we get some more of that ten below weather for a few days. Hopefully the order was complete and all the right stuff after that long wait. Have fun and stay kinda warm! Jim Derocher, AuGres, Michigan
JD i'm running out of logs. This has been one tough winter. It makes me wonder how the Native American's survived this kind of weather. The Global Warming movement will have to explain its theory to me one more time~