A continuation of my other thread.
What is the proper procedure for cutting 12" out of my drive shaft and torque tube for my TT?
I am installing a cast Warford.
I have shortened a bunch of driveshafts and tubes for T's and TT's. To do it properly requires a good size lathe for a T shaft, or a big lathe for a TT shaft. To shorten the shaft I cut the front end off the proper length and machine the bearing surface and square for the u-joint back into the shaft. For the tube I cut out the proper length and machine the ends of the tube pieces square to the centerline and weld them back together.
When you say cast Warford do you mean cast iron? If so, there may be a problem. Aluminum Warfords are 12 inches long. Cast iron three speed truck Warfords are 15.75 inches long. I know there were two speed iron Warfords that may be 12 inches long. If you have a three speed cast iron Warford twelve inches long it means you are missing the front housing that goes between the case and the T engine that has a stock T u-joint between the two. If you bolt up this trans to a T engine you will have problems. The input shaft of the Warford will have a whole bunch of slop in the T trans output. This is because the T u-joint is bigger in front than in back. Also, bolting that heavy thing on the back of the T crankcase will stress it badly, that's why Warford put a u-joint between the two and supported the back end of the Warford with a crossmember. I am a big fan of the iron Warford, I hope I have not put a kink in your plans, just want to make sure you get it done right. PM me if I can be of any help.
it would be nice if the vendors carried the shortend drive shafts and torque tubes.
According to Texas T Parts, if you buy a Lane Warford from them,they will shorten your Torque Tube for the cost of the freight. How good is that? I think that's a start.
That's not what I want to hear. This one measures 12". I'm borrowing a Warford brace to copy.
You really need the front section with the U-joint. The brace/crossmember/bracket may be more of a problem than help considering the flexing of the frame/pan/mountings. What Erik is saying is correct. However, a Muncie, which is similar in weight and has a hard mounting has a support member which seems to work.
paul, got one for ya, i'll bring it monday.
Paul do you know the length of the housing needed after you cut it, I have several driveshaft housings already cut, I don't think I have the shortened driveshafts however. After 60 yrs of buying parts I've wound up with some that have been cut off firstname.lastname@example.org
John I emailed you. Clayton this unit is just as advertised, very little wear. I'm cleaning and flushing it as wee speak.
Shorten the torque tube first. Cut it about 12-18" in front of the rear flange where it is straight. Make certain to get a dead length before cutting. I put to pick punch marks on the tube and use a trammel. Then carefully tack together, bolt it to the axle housings, check it for square taking diagonals from each end of the axles. The support rods can now be cut to fit also. Check for for square again and weld.
The driveshaft can be handled in several ways depending on your lathe. If it will fit through the spindle, hang the tail end through the headstock. If it won't fit, use a 4 jaw and a steady rest. Grip the existing journal, and machine new at the required position. The runout between the existing journal surface and the OD of the shaft was not better than .015 on any of my original driveshafts.
If you get stuck with an early TT driveshaft, which I did in one case, the splines are about 1/2 the depth of the later style. This can be handled by boring the ID of the splines larger on one end of the coupler. If you do find an early driveshaft, don'cut it.
I agree with Nick about the torque tube. I'm sure to get some adverse comments over this, but here is how I shortened the drive shaft on my TT with a cast iron (6 speed) Warford. I took the proper amount (15.75 in) out of the middle of the shaft and welded it back together. Took some careful effort to prepare the joint, get full penetration without voids, etc. Proper positioning and weld process/sequence will eliminate any runout. Balancing is another issue...clean grinding of the weld minimizes. This was done with stick...modern tig/mig might be even easier. No, I don't own a lathe. Has run fine for 40 years.
If you can't get one from John, I have some shortened TT Tubes you can look at. I am in your backyard also, so it will save you on the freight. May have a good short driveshaft as well. Call or email 320-293-one nine five three or alosoatq.com
Thanks Andy, I think John and I have come up with something already. I'll let you know if it doesn't work out.
You guys are great!
I thought that the original Warfords had an accessory for the shortening of the torque tube. This collar clamped to the spool end of the tube after it was cut and required no welding.
I have one on a TT and a loose one somewhere in my stuff. I bet someone has one of these and just didn't realize what it was for.
Andy I don't have the shortened driveshafts for some of my cut down torque tubes, but I did sell him a NOS set of the collar that clamps to the spool end of the torque tube and NOS pcs for his radius rods
I'm getting there.. I have another question.
Its going in this.
Sorry for the mess!
Three places, yes. But the front one goes between the ball cap and the hogshead/crankcase, not behind the ball cap.
Thought so. Thanks Mike.
you call that a mess? come over here and i'll show you a mess
Lets look at square footage...
Warford is ready to go bracket has been made. The drive shaft torque tube and rods will be here. You would think the hard part is done. Wrong... I am working on mocking up the Warford and cannot seam to be able to get the rear end loose from the rest of the truck. What is the trick, 4 bolts in front 6 in back. I am working on the shackles now.
Any advise is welcome.
I have a driveshaft that has been shortened (thanks Andy), but its not short enough. If I didn't have to install the ujoint behind the Warford it would fit.
I am really just double checking with you guys. The ujoint is nessesary, yes/no and if it is I should shorten the shaft 2 3/4" ?
Measure 8 times, ask the forum, cut once.
Yes the u-joint is mandatory. Walter Burton in Rice, MN can shorten the driveshaft for you. He's a retired machinist with several decades of antique car experience under his belt and his shop rates are pretty reasonable. Contact me at email@example.com and I'll give you his phone number.
I could probably "PM" you with this question, however, this might also help someone else that has a Warford "situation" similar to mine:
I recently purchased a very nice '26 Touring that has an iron, 3-speed Warford installed. I am very satisfied with the way the car runs and drives, however, this Warford setup does NOT have any support of any kind to help with the added weight hanging off of the rear of the Ford engine/transmission. Because the '26 "T" has the top/forward part of the hogshead bolted to the rear of the engine block, I believe this does help a lot, however, I still believe that the rear of the Warford should be supported, if for no other reason than to preclude the added strain on the "ears" (rear engine mounts) that are rivited and brazed to the stamped engine pan.
I also believe that such support should NOT be solidly bolted to the frame and solidly bolted to the Warford due to the flexible "T" frame twisting. I'm wondering if it would be possible to merely suspend the rear of the Warford in such a way that merely helps with the added weight,...say some sort of flexible cable/spring arrangement or something to just provide a bit of constant "lift" to support the weight of the Warford without solid ridged support that would possibly cause added stress whenever uneven ground or pavement causes twisting of the frame. (???) Thanks Erik (or anybody) for any suggestion,.......harold
Does your iron Warford have a fully functional u-joint between it and the T transmission? If so, it would be inclined to flop around without a support on the rear to stabilize it. It is true that your late T with the hogsheads bolts into the block protects the pan alignment. My concern is that you may have an iron Warford bolted to your T without the intermediate u-joint and housing. This presents two problems. One, it negates the benefits or the Warford's flexibility to protect the pan alignment. Two, if you bolt the Warford up to the T without the u-joint, there is a whole bunch of slop in the connection because of the difference in size between the front and back of the T u-joint. When properly installed, an iron Warford has a crossmember bolted to the top of the output shaft area which curves down to the T frame and is secured there with a couple of u-bolts and clamp plates. The u-joint between the Warford and the T trans isolates it from any stress generated by forces from the rear end. I can send pics of my TT if that would help.
Erik - All I can tell without taking things apart is that my Warford looks exactly like the picture above that Paul Booth posted at 01:21 pm,....the Warford painted black where Paul asks about the gaskets. In other words, mine has that same short spherical housing with the large grease cup on top, bolted up between the forward or input side of the Warford and the hogshead. I'm assuming that that means there's a U-joint inside that short spherical housing, right?
Thanks so much for the response to my "inquiry" here Erik, and if you wouldn't mind posting those pictures you mentioned, that would be great! Thanx again,.......harold
I've had this saved in my photos for a while.
I don't have a note for where it came from.
Here's a few Warford cross member pics:
Here is how I copied one.
Just for information:
My Warford two speed trannie is only 11", my 3 speed is 12".
Here's how I do Warford crossmembers:
I bolt a short piece of angle (aluminum in this case) to the tranny to get a flat surface. The crossmember has a 50's Chevy motor mount donut on it which supports the Warford. Fender washers are used to shim the donut to the right height. I put in enough washers to lift it just a taste. The tranny rests upon the donut but is not connected to it. That way, the frame can flex all it wants to but the twisting isn't transferred to the Warford. I put many thousands of miles on a setup like this one with NO problems.