A video was shared on the forum about the recycling of Model Ts to be Model As. Of the 15 million cars to have been produced and the engine numbers that appear in the McCalley Model T book...how many by year were actually sold?
Certainly there were never 15 million Model T cars "out there" between 1908 and 1927.
There may be records for 15 million possible cars to be available but ...really.... 15 million cars actually sold?
OT? Minor point of order, George. Discussing Model Ts on a Model T forum is not really "off topic."
If they weren't sold then what happened to them? Are you suggesting that some cars went unsold and then were recycled? I don't think so...
15 million cars was sold - not only in the US but WW. In the early 1920's half of all cars driving on the roads was Model T's. After Ford established their assembly plant in Copenhagen, things started going fast - very fast.
Before that Fords was imported by an agent.
OK...if 15 million were sold why a video of cars being recycled?
George- that video did not contain any new cars be recycled.
15 million were sold, and over time most of them were used up, then traded in or discarded, just like cars today.
I would assume they were worn out junk cars
"...but ...really.... 15 million cars actually sold?"
Well sure. Ford wasn't in the business of making things he couldn't sell.
Always a turning point in a value of a car, worth more as scrap than a second hand car back on the road, even today at my end of the world, a car can be traded in on a new one and at least worth scrap price.
George: With reference to the "how many by year part" of your question: Are you asking how the number of Model T cars in existence at any given time increased and decreased?
Way over 15. Million Model. T Fords were made.THIS FIGURE DOES. Not include Canada or Errope and ,other areas.
The 15 million figure does not include the thousands of 1923 fiberglass "T Buckets" that have been made and are still being made.
Darel, the 15 million is world wide numbers, not just USA. Ford carefully managed the numbers and handed out series of numbers to the various plants, both in the US, Canada and UK, that produced engines. Canada put a C in front of the engine number to mark it was an canadian car.
That car crushing video showed older cars being re-cycled. There were a few T's in the video, but many others.
Ford capitalized on the strength and longevity of the T.....here is what they printed. The Ford lasted for more years before it goes to the dump!
Back to the number produced and the number sold.
Searching the Journal The Automobile...information for Rhode Island was given. The time frame was between 1916 and 1917 there were 6,866 Fords registered. out of a total pool of registered automobiles of 20,736. Between 1916 and 1917 the number of registered vehicles increased 4,775, with half that number being Fords.
Automobile Industries (The Automobile)6 December 1917 p.992
Dan, love the bar graph ! Any idea when it was published ? Cars pictured look late '20s, maybe into Model A times ?
As a statistic, it would seem then that brass Ts had pretty much disappeared from the scene by the mid- 1920s. Interesting !
Who wants one of those brass cars? Gotta polish them all the time to make them look decent, and then they STILL look like something my grandparents would have driven. Nickle is SO much more the bees knees, Especially in colors, and wire wheels, and ... yeah! Who wants to look stodgy?
Brass, schmasshs... --giggles--
They still lasted a LONG time, but styles changed. Just like they do now. It's like comparing a modern car to something out of the mid-late 70's...
That bar graph is 1926, from Fordex Salesmen manual. Scroll to the last pages under Comparisons, page 13.
Thanks Dan, I'm always curious !
Minor point -- the serial numbers for Model T engines that were fully assembled with the transmissions were stamped with the serial number at the Ford Plant that assembled them. Most plants regardless of where they were located used the USA engine numbers. There were two exceptions that I know of.
The first exception that was NOT included in the sequential listing of USA engine numbers were the B serial number engines produced in the USA -- see: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/11-12Ser.htm In summary for how many produced it says: "Ford made 12,247 B-numbered engines "during fiscal 1913 in Detroit." And it also states, "Apparently these engines were built in the late summer and early fall of calendar 1912..."
The second exception was Ford of Canada. Up until May 1913 Ford of Canada used engines supplied by Ford USA and therefore they had USA serial numbers already stamped on them before they were sent to Canada. In May 1913 Ford of Canada began assembling their own complete engines and transmission assemblies. While Ford of Canada put a "C" in front of the serial number they also started with C-1 and ran to at least C 748,039. There almost certainly would have been some overlap when the last of the USA provided engines along with the first of the Canadian "C" serial number engines were both used.
For the number of Ford Cars Produced in a given time frame please see the Production Figures at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/fdprod.htm [sometimes by fiscal and later by calendar year].
For the sales data 1908-1919 please see: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/fdsales.htm where Bruce states that not all cars produced in a given year were sold in that year. I.e. Town Cars were slow sellers. Cars produced the last week of a year were probably sold the following year etc.
One other source that can be helpful for putting things into perspective is the book "The American Car Since 1775" by the editors of Automobile Quarterly. On pages 138-143 they list the calendar year production from 1896 to 1970 for the top 3 to 15 car manufacturers in the USA. Clearly not a complete list and missing data in places but an excellent comparison. For example for calendar year 1909 they list Ford at 17,771 as number 1 and Buick with 14,606 as number 2. Number 14 that year was White with 1,377.
For 1922 they have Ford at 1,173,745 with Chevy as #2 with 208,848 and #14 Oakland with 19,636.
Note Bruce at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/fdprod.htm shows the Ford production for 1922 as: 1,301,067 verses the 1,173,745 that the listing in "The American Car since 1775. But that listing by Bruce included the Overseas production (ref page 464 of Bruce's book "Model T Ford"). On page 464 Bruce has the USA production listed as: 1,232,202 which is within 58,457 of the other books listing of USA Ford calendar year production for 1922. So while not in total agreement -- they are in the same general ball park.
Hap l9l5 cut off
With in the realm of early automobile literature there may be a list by state and year of automobiles actually registered. With a bit of statistical magic it may be possible to look at the early years to see the exact number of Ford cars manufactured and the actual number registered (sold). There may be some exceptions...cars in the military, cars still are assembly districts. But as with the example of Rhode Island it may be able to identify for a given year if the number of cars manufactured are close to the number of cars sold.
Number of Fords registered in Massachusetts 1915-
Lots of cars on that list I never heard of.
Production of Ford cars increased over the production years as the whole industry boomed and increased its output during the teens and twenties. The first Model T year's output of 10,600 cars was built in less than two days in 1923. The first million cars were built by the end of 1915 = it took seven years, while the second million only took one and a half years. The tenth million took only six months and thus the majority of the cars were built in the later production years and a lot of them were on the road at the same time.
They weren't even distributed geographically - wealthy cities may have had a higher percentage of fancier cars while rural farming communities with bad roads were very good markets for rugged Fords.
15,007,033 is reported as the last car built at Highland Park, but it was a engine number - and complete numbered engines were sold as spares the whole time during production. Ford did put a "car number" on the patent plate from beginning, but it was discontinued by early 1915. We can estimate a couple hundred thousand engines sold as spares and should add the almost 750,000 cars made in Canada - the end result would be about 15,5 million cars made worldwide. Of them about 14.5 million were sold in USA, I would guess?
The number of companies that tried their hand at auto manufacturing in the early days is mind-numbing.
One of the best books I ever bought was the "Standard Catalog of American Cars" #1, which covers all makes from 1805 - 1942.