WOW 48K buy it now?
Hey Omar, will you buy that car for me for my birthday?
Just saw it also.
Not bad but $48K. Wish the seller luck.
It's not a model L Lincoln :-)
Larry Bohlen '27 Touring
Lest we forget the words of P.T.Barnum...
I think I saw it for 58K before it went on ebay, I almost fell of my chair when I saw the price!
ahh Dave! You ruined the surprise…
heck, Hold me back or I'm tearing apart the Roadster tomorrow....lol....may even have new top irons forged for that kind of investment return...
What is a "private museum"? Is that a garage? Do I have a "private museum" attached to my house?!?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Model-T-1915-Model-T-Coupelet-Formerly-of-Pa cific-Auto-Rental_W0QQitemZ160406056533QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=it em2558f22e55
Where you gonna find another one for less????? Or, for that matter, just find another one??? They are the rarest of the T's after the 2 lever. All original??? Good wood??? There's a big bonus. It might be a little overpriced but not all that much. I'll bet you couldn't find a restored one for less than fifty, maybe more. Ask Mike Walker what he's going to have in his when he gets it done and he is a fine cabinet maker with a shop full of tools to build all that wood with if he needs to. There was an 18 for sale not too long ago, just a body--and they are not nearly so desirable, as the top doesn't fold. It was for sale for $18,000 with a restored chassis or for $12,000 for the body and it sold. I don't know what he actually got for it but that was asking price.
I'd be hard press to pay half what the buy it now price is, even if I had the cash. With the wrong engine, late coil box and the impression the owner has that the true VIN is stamped on the frame gives me pause.
I sent the seller an email letting him know there was no such thing as a "chassis number" on these cars and mentioning that it was a real shame the original engine (with the REAL v.i.n.) had been lost.
As for the cost to restore one right? I don't know yet, but I can already tell it's gonna' be big bucks. These are a whole different animal than an open car.
The owner says 1919 or later engine. With the coil box on the side, aren't we looking at a 26 or 27. Really decreases the value of the car.
I am with you on this one. A '15 power train is not hard to find. 9 days, I've got to think about it.
Somebody probably told him at some time that VIN numbers were stamped somewhere on the frame. I doubt that there is a number, and if there were, it wouldn't have been stamped under the body where it could not be seen.
Purists will cringe, but all three of my "T"s have a number that matches the registration and title papers stamped on the frame under the floorboard on the passenger side. In the 87 to 95 years since they were made, or at least in the 48 to 61 years since they were restored and registered, the engines were changed and the number on the title was no longer anywhere on the car. If one of these cars ever disappeared for any reason, I could not prove ownership with my paperwork. Now I can.
Nothing wrong with dreaming big, But in the end it's still a dream! I'm sure his car will stay in the famley for many years to come.
Well - it may well be a 26-27 engine, but if it for driving the car a lot that vintage of engines is about the best now that it could not be the original.
It's a nice story that car has - apparently, but can it be verified just a little?
My couplet is completely restored and J. C. Taylor appraised and insured it for $40,000.
George, if something happened to it and you had to take the $40 instead of having the car, would you be happy with that amount??? As nice as yours is I'll bet you could get over 40 for it.
I would rather have the car.
Seeing how im not shure but why are there early rear fenders on a 15 or 16 car?? Bud.
Bud: Good point. The 1915 Catalog shows rounded rear fender. I guess they are on the car for the same reason that it has a 26-27 engine, bumper(s), tool & battery boxes and other changes... 95 years of updating?
Bill,Thank you and i hope not to set off a firestorm but when it's[rare] and the big money speakes one should either know or at least know a man who does! Im no expert but i do know there are said to be fake/made over couplets out there! Bud.
The seller said he car had carbide lamps and generator on it when he got it, but that he had replaced them with the "proper" electric lights. This could have been a very early '15 which was equipped with '14 lamps and fenders from the assembly plant. If it was, it's unfortunate that those early parts were removed from the car. The same goes for the original engine, of course. Now we'll never know the true history of the car.
By the way, the cowl lamps are the very early '15 ones with the thicker lens rims and the different oil fonts so it is a very early '15 model year car, probably produced late in '14 or Jan. of '15.
Me again (sorry, I just can't help myself.) The "proper" headlights that they put on the car appear to be the run-of-the-mill '15 model year ones, not the fat-rimmed ones which would have been issued on a car with the fat-rimmed cowl lamps. And I won't even mention the atrocious red wheels.
While some well-meaning folks have done the car a disservice over its lifetime, I still wouldn't kick it out of my garage. The things which have been changed can be changed back (all except the engine with the original serial number), and it's basically a very nice example of a very rare Model T.
We all know it's not totally original and the owner says that in the listing. We all also know that what you are buying is that 15 Coupelet body. Everything else has been, could be and probably will be changed back to whatever the new owner thinks is correct. As far as a 15 engine, I would want a 15 engine in it but I wouldn't particularly care if it was the original or not. I don't think there are a lot of T's running around today that have the factory engine in them. The rear fenders were probably changed to the straight style when they put the brass lamps on it. Or not. It may be a Henry deal.
Mike, how many do you know of? I don't have a clue but I've been doing Model T's for over 50 years and I had never seen one until the Centennial in 2008.
Well it's up for auction where the whole world can see and set it's worth! As rare as this car should be im shure some actually know this car and everything about it. Bud.
I think I could do a complete restoration on it including installing all the correct parts for about $15K, not including anything for my own labor.
It is conceivable that if this car were perfecly restored it might fetch $80 - $90K at a good auction like Sothebys or R&M.
With all that considered it might be fairly priced.
If you consider paying a premium for a rare car, you might try to figure out why it's rare. Were so few built because it wasn't competitive? Or, did it quickly get a bad reputation for some reason? What is it with the Coupelet?
Ralph -- The Coupelet was very expensive compared with the other Fords, so they just didn't sell well. The '15 model year cars were made from Dec. '14 thru Feb. of '15, then production stopped so the dealers could clear their existing inventory. Coupelet production resumed in the fall of '15. Those late '15 calendar year Coupelets were '16 models, and they were greatly reduced in price so they sold better. A few convertible Coupelets were made early in the '17 model year before the switch was made to the fixed-top ones. The 17's seem to be the most rare of the convertible-top ones. The early 15's are next, with the 16's being the most plentiful (if you can call it that). Please note that many '16 model year cars are titled as 15's, since that's how titling was done then -- by calendar year, not model year.
Stan -- As for a "body count", as nearly as I've been able to ascertain, there are somewhere around 50-60 of the convertible Coupelets still around.
What percentage is that out of fifteen million? I should know how to figure that but I don't think my calculator knows how.
I believe 60 would be 4/10,000 of one per cent. (Some of our engineer friends will have to check my math.)
I got as far as lessee, ten percent would be one and a half milion, one percent would be a hundred and fifty thousand, one tenth of one percent would be fifteen thousand, one hundredth of one percent would be fifteen hundred, one thousandth of one percent would be one hundred and fifty, 60 cars out of one hundred and fifty would be forty percent so I was thinking it would be .0004% I think that's the same answer you got. Whatever it is, they are pretty rare.
Here are some pictures of my 15 Coupelet. It is almost totally complete with the original engine, cast on Jan 29 and assempled on Feb 8 of 1915. As you can see there is much restoration work to be performed.
Mike: I believe the Centerdoor and Couplete, which were new with the 1915 models, began being produced as early as Sept/Oct of 1914. The open 1915 cars came out late Jan. early Feb of 1915.
Oh, also, the car for sale is not one of the earliest Coupelets. It has the top lid rather than the end opening that were on the first Couplelets.
Barry -- I know that Bruce's book says the closed cars were produced as early as Sept/Oct of 1914. But Trent Boggess has found information in the Ford archives which appears to refute that notion. Here is an email Trent sent to me a year or so ago on this subject:
I found the information on the 1915 coupes you were asking about. The information was found in Accession 125 Finance – Model T Cost Books 1913-1927. Beginning in December 1913, FMC began keeping detailed cost accounting records for everything they made. It is an early form of a managerial accounting cost determination and the cost of each part of a Model T, and I mean each and every part, was broken down into three categories: materials, labor and overhead. Frequently costs were calculated out to 5 decimal places, which seems like overkill until you realize that they were making these parts in the millions. A 5 decimal place cost measure multiplied by a 7 figure number turns out to be real money.
At the front of the monthly books is a page that lists the total cost of a Model T by body style and is usually expressed as the sum of the cost of a chassis plus the cost of the body. The following table shows the month and year, the number of sedans and coupelets produced and the cost of a complete car.
Month/Year Sedans Sedan Cost Coupelets Coupelet Cost
Dec. 1914 331 $577.927 801 $373.95
Jan. 1915 441 $612.215 211 $408.918
Feb. 1915 204 $601.066 160 $398.826
Totals 976 1172
There is no cost book for March 1915, but the April book lists production for both March and April 1915. No sedans or coupelets were produce in either of those months. In fact, 1915 sedan and coupelet production ends in February 1915 and does not resume until October 1915 (1 coupelet). In November 225 coupelets were produced and 1 sedan. And in December 213 coupelets and 130 sedans were made."
There is no mention of Sedans or Coupelets in September, October, or November of 1914.
Mike: That is excellent to know. I should have known better than to question your stats!!
Thank you. Do you have any progress photos on your restoration progress??
One more thing. When I am finished, the car should be essentually a 'new' February 1915 Coupelet. I can assure everyone that my cost will exceed $398.826!!
Someone actually bought the car. Was it anyone from here?
The first round was a mis-bid. It didn't sell. He then re-listed it. It bid to $12,600 & did not meet reserve. Unless he listed it a third time, it did not sell to my knowledge. Here's the link to the second auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1915-Model-T-Coupelet-Formerly-of-Pacific-Auto-Re ntal_W0QQitemZ160408349371QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2559152abb# ht_1031wt_1167