Spndles and Spndle Arms

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Spndles and Spndle Arms
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arthur J Wacaster on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 08:34 pm:

Just bought a '26 Touring in overall great shape. Runs well but I've experienced a rather severe shimmy -- not the slight shimmy of legend I've read about but I thought it was going to shake itself to pieces for a moment there. Fellow I bought it from said this was caused by a worn spindle arm and he sent along a new one -- assuring me it was simple to replace. Two questions. Could this be the cause of or contribute to violent shimmy? Is it in fact easy to replace? I have a copy of the reprinted Ford service manual as a guide.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 09:06 pm:

All I can say is have a torch ready. You will need the blue wrench to get them off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 09:38 pm:

It's not just the spindle arms that can cause shimmy. Any loose (worn) junctions in the steering can cause it. Do a grab and move test on all the steering rods and start eliminating loose connections. It could be worn bolts, rod forks or balls and cups. When the rods are all tight then check for king-pin bushing wear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 09:39 pm:

Forgot: Follow all that with checking toe-in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arthur J Wacaster on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 08:49 am:

Thanks, gentlemen, sounds like I've got a couple days of work ahead of me. Better get started. Any further advice from anyone, please pass it on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 09:34 am:

Jack both front wheels up and place on jack stands so you can grasp each tire and do a simple inspection.
CAUTION: DO not place the jack in the center of the axle- jack up one tire at a time to place on the the jack stands. Back wheels more then the front!

1) While standing facing one the tires and looking down from the top grasp it firmly and rock it in an in and out motion to see if their is any play in the bearings, spindle, and bushings.

2) Check the pitman arm end to see if the ball or socket my be worn.

3) Turn the steering wheel back and forth to see if there is any movement in the steering wheel before the tires start to turn. If so this may be worn steering gears in the steering gear box.

4) Check tires for proper inflation.

5) Be sure all bolts & nuts are secure and have cotter pins in place.

6)Check front wishbone where it attaches to the oil pan make sure this is tight and the nuts are properly secured with wire.

7) Spin the wheels to look for a bent rim. Place a sledge hammer with the head on the floor and the handle up in the air next to the tire. This will give you a better point of view to see if the rims are bent. Check for tight lug nuts also.

8) remove the water pump or you'll hold everyone up from getting ice cream!

I'm sure I don't have everything listed but other will add to the list.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 09:42 am:

After you've run out of inspiration on things to check and fix in the frontend, you can buy an aftermarket shimmy damper from your favorite T parts vendor. Or you could get lucky at a swapmeet.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 03:58 pm:

A few years ago on the Riverside Orange Blossom tour, I developed a shimmy in the front wheels. What I found was a loose spindle arm where it is fastened to the spindle. I tightened up the nut as tight as I could get it and replaced the cotter pin. I have had the car out on many tours since, and had no more shimmy.

The usual cause is loose spindle bolts and bushings, but anything loose from the steering wheel to the wheel bearings and all parts between can cause a shimmy as well as severely out of balance tires or caster/camber or tow in adjustments.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Frost PIERCE on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 04:58 pm:

To me one of the main causes of shimmy is correct caster angle It should be beween 1/4 and 5/16 {see paragraph 146 in service book] Tne only time mine shimmys is when there are 2 people in the back seat going slow and hit a rut in the road Then I take my hands off the steering wheel and the shimmy stops Like others have said also check camber and toe in


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Frost PIERCE on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 05:08 pm:

That should be incorredt ncoret incoreat oh pu incorrect you know what I mean


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 12:09 am:

Lee, I undermean what you stand! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arthur J Wacaster on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 06:46 pm:

Thank you all for your help. Dennis, I did everything you suggested - step by step - and then decided to do what Rick (Ricks) said, so I ordered a set of stabilizers from Snyders. Decided that it was more important that it be fun to drive than that it be a "pure" Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 07:12 pm:

Check the fit of the bearing cups in the hubs. Had a guys car in shop for same problem. After fixing loose king pins, found more play in the hubs. Races had turned in the hubs and worn the hubs. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 07:40 pm:

Make sure all your cotter pins are installed, including those on the bolts that attach the steering bracket to the frame. Steering damper or not, you should go thru and remove any looseness as you can and inspect the steering while you are doing it. Be sure the nuts on the wishbone ball fitting are safety wired together, cotter pins won't do the job here.

Spindle arm bushings are easily replaced. There is no need to replace the arm. Remove the tie rod bolt and place a jack under the spindle arm. Slip a new bushing ovet your old tie rod bolt and tap it in. Next install a new tie rod bolt and you are done. King pins are a little more complex but readily replaced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael a flynn on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 10:23 pm:

I am very uncomfortable adding a message here. I read this forum most every day and have noticed if my findings are different I may not be kindly welcomed. Having said that, my 26 tudor used to shimmy when I slowed down and turned the car. After I rebuilt the rear end and replaced the rear spring shackle bushings the shimmy has dissapeared. Maybe both axles need to be straight and tight. I didn't do anything to the front end. Thanks to some for not disbelieving me. mflynn


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:54 am:

Michael, don't ever be uncomfortable with posting here. That is what this forum is all about, sharing ideas and experiences. You may well have found a solution to a common problem. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 04:40 am:

I think 1925-27 Fords will always be more shimmy-prone than earlier T's, if they have balloon tires. The balloon tire wheels are heavier than earlier wheels with thinner tires, but the dimensions of the tie rod and the drag link are just as thin and flexible as before. If anything is slightly loose in the front (or in the rear, great observation, Michael), then any shock from the pavement can start sideways movement in the wheels, with the wheels acting like a pendulum. Clincher wheeled T's can also do the shimmy, but I suspect they can be a little more loose in the joints without starting to shimmy as easily as the later ones?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 05:06 am:

Dennis made a good list to check, but I'll add a couple more areas easily overlooked:
The steering shaft may have worn loose in the lower steering bracket (down near the pitman arm) and the steering gear case can be loose in the steering column (loose rivets or a crack in the sheet metal)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 06:25 am:

Lee,

Do we have another example of mixed English/auto terminology between America and Australia? In OZ, caster is the lean backwards on the spindle bolts, 5 degrees or so. We call the distance between the top and the bottom of the wheels,usually 3" on a T, the camber. I remember this from the reverse camber on early VW beetles.

I have a mate on Kangaroo Island with shimmy problems too. We adjusted his wheel bearings, tightened up the perch nuts on the radius rod, but still had the shimmy. Everything else was ship shape, so we checked the camber. Just 1/2" on one side and 1" on the other. So it's off to the body shop for some serious bending of the axle to get it right.

Cheers, Allan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:09 am:

I bought a '25 pickup about 15 years ago that shimmied. I replaced all the bushings in the front end, and tightened up the ball cap for the wishbone too, and replaced a bent perch. Hasn't shimmied since. I also took apart the spring, and rebuilt it too.


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