Hi Guy's
If any of you have purchased and are using a Crystal timer and having trouble or are contemplating purchasing and using one please contact me directly.
There are some serious, but easily correctable, issues with this timer that will materially affect its performance.
If not forewarned you might take away from the experience that this is not a good timer and that is definitely not the case. Like so many others it is just another trap for logical Model T people.
Ron the Coilman
modeltcoils(at)windstream.net

Ron, why don't you just post the corrections on this forum? Then everyone will be informed. After all, isn't that what this forum is for?

Tom
I am giving the seller some time to provide an explanation.
We shall see.
Ron the Coilman

Ron. I have one of these glass timers I purchased several years ago which I intend to use because it looks so unique. Didn't I read on an old thread several years ago that Bob Scherzer makes a replacement contact ring and other replacement parts for the crystal timer to replace the original ring and parts that tends to swell with age? What is the material on these timers made from that causes them to swell and what does Bob use? Jim Patrick

wasnt the ring made out of pot metal,and after age it would swell?

Let's see, $40 for a nonusable timer and @$60 for new adapters,That's one expensive piece of hardware . I bet you could buy a couple good timers for less ,or a distributer?

Jim and Dennis are correct, but there is a new dimension.
The Crystal timer pot metal ring is the problem. It is the item on the left in this photo.

The pot metal ring has swollen up and will not fit the engine front plate timer case counter bore as can be seen in this photo.

Bob Scherzer is casting in aluminum replacement rings that solves that problem AND holds the glass timer piece centered in the ID of the ring. The item at the top in this photo.

The seller is now advertising the availability of a "modified" pot metal ring at additional cost that is intended to resolve the problem, but still does not make the timer usable. Here is a photo of the "modified" ring installed on the engine front plate.

Here is a photo of an original (on left) and vendor "modified" timer ring (on right).

Here are two photos of a modified pot metal ring with the glass timer installed. If you look very close you will see the ID of the ring is also swollen and the glass timer wallows around inside the ID of the ring.


I am sure you can imagine the affect on spark timing using the "modified" pot metal ring.
Accurate Spark Timing
I just ordered two "modified" Crystal timers with the idea I would not have to get Bob Scherzer's new rings and upon receipt discovered this problem.
Please do not misunderstand I believe the Crystal timer is a robust design and will work very well, but you should only order the unmodified Crystal timer and get one of Bob Scherzer's new rings to make it function properly.
When I brought this problem to the attention of the seller he essentially dismissed my concerns.
Ron the Coilman

Jack
The new rings do not cost $60.
Ron the Coilman

Ron,I just couldn't resist.(G)

I'm curious. It looks like the rotor body is also made of pot metal. Does it fit the camshaft? Are there other issues with it, eg cracks?

The man that invented potmetal,I hope his casket was made out of it.
worthless stuff that causes all kinds of problems.

Mack,
I can understand your (and other's) dislike of pot metal, BUT-- It can be a good alloy, if the elements are there in the right ratios, AND there is NO contamination of the retort and the mold. Pot metal does not like any "non-standard" elements in its mixture.
Collecting American Flyer cast toy trains from the late '30s and '40s is frustrating, because (as we now know) the foundy folks would often dispose of their gum inner wrappers in the "pot" not realizing how it would effect the alloy over time. Most of the trains today are experiencing the atomic grain swelling caused by this addition.
T'
David D.

I know a gentleman that had the crystal timer brush fail in use from embrittlement. The New Day wiper brush is a very close match for the pot metal Crystal timer brush as shown in the following pictures. Has anyone tried using a New Day brush??

How does that looks in the dark? Cool!

Ron



I too have both the modified ring and Bob's alum black ring. Noticed that in several of the Crystal timers I have, the 'wiggle' isn't much pronounced.


Maybe since the push and pull of the Crystal is from the 'lug', that the amount of play around the ring isn't enough to cause misfire?


On one of the Crystals, Bob's ring at that lug was very snug, to the point that the Crystal wouldn't lay down totally flat. Would have to file the lug to make that Crystal work on the new black ring.


And.....here's a shot of an old Crystal found at a swap, you can see the wear pattern on the contacts, and a bit of wear across the glass too, but you know, the design and materials of the Crystal are pretty advanced. I think its one of the best from the standpoint of material and design. Can't comment on performance, I have yet to run one of these!



Wear on old Crystal Timer

I have run the Crystal timer in my 1923 touring since 2001 on at least 2 dozen tours, cleaned it after 2000 miles and again at 4000 miles realy no problems. It had the original ring with it when given to me.
I milled it down to fit.

Frank Fenton's Anco-type timers are looking better all the time.....

(Sorry, Guys, I couldn't resist.)

The real question is, "why would such a large quanity of timers be left in storage for so many years?" There must have been a considerable expense involved. Perhaps another question might be, "why was production continued for so long on a unit that was not selling?" Perhaps the storage was because there was a lawsuit pending over patent infringement?

This timer is very similar, was made in Ridgely, Maryland and is almost identical. This unit has Patented March 1921 stamped in it.

So, do these look cool in the dark?

Can you see the sparks as the wiper zooms around?

One on the guys ran one of these on one of the Montana 500's. He was barrelling along in first place when some water splashed onto it (we suppose) and broke it plum in two. It wound up costing him the race. To add injury to insult, he cut himself changing it out.

Pyrex glass just isn't what is used-to-be ?????

Pot Metal ruined the antique radio hobby for me.
Too many nice radios and record players rendered unworkable due to swelled and crumbling parts.
Howard

One well known elderly friend of mine had the same original Crystal Timer on his T for over 20 years and drove it from New Jersey to California and back in the 1950s with no problems.

Like every other T aspect or part, you can get two to ten opinions and still have to form your own.

Michael and Christopher, since it's a low voltage distributor, sparks would be a sign of trouble, not expected in the dark.
I've seen dress up 4 cyl distributor caps for VW's in clear plastic at swap meets - with a high voltage distributor I would expect some visible sparking in the dark, but haven't had a chance to actually see one of those in operation.

Roger, you are right, those sparks are most likely caused by shorted coil box wood conducting the sparks that should be going to the spark plug back down the ground wire. I had that situation with a bad New Day timer and the plastic was badly burned in about 50 miles of driving. That is when I learned the wood was only originally stained black and I should never have painted it with a black carbon based enamel paint.