Sorry, I couldn't resist posting a photo of my latest attempt at blacksmithing. I made a two piece driveshaft from a later one with a damaged ball. I used 1/4" rivets with the truss heads on the inside to clear the driveshaft. I used the unmachined part of the driveshaft as a bucking bar. I put all 4 rivets in the holes from the inside then jammed the driveshaft up thru the top. Came out ok, don't you think? This will be part of the Perfecto project. I will be running it on my 12, that's the reason for the early piece.

Good job.

Richard,
Looks nice! What did you use for the driveshaft housing? Is it a later housing that you machined the end of or ??? (I am guessing the 2-pc housing is shorter than a later one?) The casting in the photo on the left is an original or one you made up or ???
Verne

Thanks Jack. Verne, I used a later DS housing, the type that uses an enclosed spool. The rear casting part is the same as the post 1910 two piece housings. I believe the tubes are the same length. The upper casting is off a two piece drive shaft. I purchased both the upper casting, the ball and ring on eBay some time back. The lower photo shows the upper casting I removed from the housing.
It took 2000 psi to press the two piece casting on. I was surprised at that.

Thanks Richard. It sure looks like a nice job. So, if someone was able to reproduce the front casting(s), 2-piece driveshafts would not be on the endangered species list? I'm only missing the piece shown in your photos in order to put a 1911 rear axle together for a Torpedo.
Verne

Very nice job, very neat. I thought I saw an advert (maybe Snyders?) for the front half of a 2-piece housing...Dave C.

Richard,

I did the same to make the long section of the driveshaft on my 1912 T about 15 years ago. I had the front piece cast for the job.I seem to remember the longer machined part on the donor tube just like yours. I think I welded around the tube and then ground/hand filed it back to round to make it look exactly like an original. Then I fitted the new front, using a piece of solid shafting as the rivet buck. Your rivetting looks neater than mine!

Cheers, Allan from down under.

So would you consider that a clone driveshaft?

Boy, that's nice, Ricard. I don't think I ever seen a real one before. Could you post a picture of the other part? Thanks

Thanks for all the kind words. I'll try to post a photo or two of the ball and ring after my camera batteries recharge. I did hear of someone casting new balls and I believe Wally Szumowski (sp??) of Total Recoil is casting both pieces and his son is offering complete new units. I suspect he also uses later driveshafts as donors.
Some years ago, there was a guy in the Bay Area who was making them. He cut off the ball and ears of a later casting and welded a plate to repicate the flat portion with the holes. I wasn't overly impressed, but he got a lot of early cars on the road. He was asking $300 a pop.
I'll post photos of a couple different styles of two pieces driveshafts soon as the camera is up.

Photos of the earlier style will have to wait. They are in storage. Here's the one I am working on.

Here are photos of an original ball end.

Nice job guys. If you can fool the judges, who cares if it's real or not? More fakery. Very few judges would deduct points for these. Not as nice as the work Richard and others are doing.

The two peice drive shaft is actually a one peice with thick washers cut on the lathe from and old axle; brazed on and trimed with a die grinder. One peice is stronger.

The early two peice steering gear box is actually a slotted 26-27 gear box with a fake two peice line cut on the lathe and fake rivets soldered in. So it has 5-1 steering for greater control along with 26-27 spindles to lower and less camber for stability.

Clever. Good work, Fred

It is interesting to what lengths we go to fool people into thinking something is something when it is not. A look-a-like is used to make something look as if it is something when it is not. I can see making a good reproduction part to return something to original specs, but a look-a-like is "something else".

I don't see that marrying a two piece upper casting with an original Ford driveshaft from a later year is something to denegrate. The driveshaft ball used as a donor was damaged. Had I not salvaged it, it would have been destined for the scrap pile. After all both parts are period Ford pieces and the repair is something someone would have done years ago.
I also take issue with your comment that the purpose of such modifications are to fool people. If that were the case, neither Fred or myself would have posted the modifications for the world to see.
Maybe you have the luxury of having an absolute complete original car, but many of us don't and need to fabricate parts correct for the year.

Darel,if Fred were peddling these you might have a point,but since he isn't ... The one piece is much stronger and the steering is definitly an improvement.

Thank you all for the comments. A replica part that meets the specs of the original part is very acceptable when the original part is not available. I have concern with going to lengths to make a later part a "look-a-like." Why not just use the later part as it is? I gave a friend a 1927 steering column to use on his 1914. He used it as it was and kept the original column for use when needed.

The 1926 - 27 5:1 steering gear set fits right in a 1913 - 25 gear box. I don't know why you would change anything except the innards?????

It fits 1909 - 12 too but you have to shorten the shaft since the steering tube is shorter.

Royce, That is probably what he did. It has been several years. That 1914 is now in Lakeland, MN. It is a nice one.Thank you. Also here is a photo of an original two piece unit. It is complete and tight.

Royce and Darel, the purpose for using a 26-27 steering gear box is to use a long pin in the slotted gear box to provide the range stops.

I did a bit of a clone job for my '11 rear end. I had built up a Ruckstell with a '13-'14 axle housing, then found an original clamshell rear end. I live where there are lots of hills and mountains, so I really wanted to keep an under drive. That meant installing a Warford. I really wanted the primitive look of the cast iron radius rods and to use a closed spool drive shaft, but there was no way I was going to shorten any early parts. I found a pair of cast iron radius rods ends on eBay, from rods that had rusted off and were only about a foot long. I took a pair of early 20's radius rods and closed the seam with a wire welder, then flap disked them smooth. I cut these rods shorter, then tapered the part of the cast iron rod end so it would slip in the tube and brazed them in place. I also had to heat the ends of the rods with the bolt holes to change the angle. For the driveshaft tube, I only had an extra later tube for an open spool, so I had that shortened. I machined a thin ring on a lathe, used my flap disk to bevel the edge of the open spool flange, mig welded the ring in place and flap-disked the edge of the flange; looks just like a closed spool drive tube. Once it's all bolted up it looks stock / original from the rear of the car. For the Warford, I bought a brass ball with a threaded hole from McMaster Carr; it looks much better than the plastic shift knob supplied with the unit.

There really is no sense in posting any pictures, it looks the same as a stock clamshell rear end, but absolutely no early parts were ruined to make it up. I don't try to hide this from anyone; I've told a lot of 'T' people. I'm pretty proud of how it came out, and I've still got the 2 piece driveshaft and early radius rod set sitting in the garage.

Richard,

I don't completely understand what you did. Is that a reproduction cast end that you riveted to the drive shaft tube? If so, did you have it cast or is it available from a vendor?

Someone told me once that the someone is reproducing the drive shaft end piece. If so, I would like to know were one can be obtained.

Darel,

It seems that the only real difference between what you call replica parts & look-a-likes is the source of raw material used to make each.

A replica part really is a look-a-like too, since it is not original, but "looks like" it is.

Rick, the piece I riveted on to the donor drive shaft is an original end for a two piece driveshaft. I noticed some confusion about that. I purchased the ball, ring and upper casting on eBay. All original. Often you find those parts removed from the torque tube. To answer your second question, the ball is offered for sale commercially, the ring and upper DS casting are not. However, I believe the upper casting is being offered as a part of a complete two piece drive shaft by Wally Szumowski. I assume he is using original torque tubes. I recall thinking his price was in line with original pieces.

Darel:

In your first picture in this thread, I question whether the "ring" portion is in fact from an early 2 piece drive shaft because where the large grease cup screws into the ring there is usually a larger boss there. On the later cars it is simply a punched and threaded hole. Compare the threaded area in your picture with the other ring pictures and focus on the boss where the grease cup screws in. I could be wrong but it appears your picture shows the later type ring.

John the ring that Darel shows I would assume to be correct?

Herb

And what about the now non usable driveshaft end that was cut to be removed? Seems like a waste.

Bob, read the first post. Richard said it had a damaged ball. Dave

Herb:

But in the picture there is no boss where the grease cup screws in- is there? It appears to be the simple punched through and threaded hole as was used on later T's. It is not a big deal to me but every early car I have seen has that different ring with that boss.

The first photo Darel posted shows a later style ring as John observed, the second set he posted appears to have the corret piece. Those rings are harder to find than the castings.

I once owned one that had a different style boss. It was a machined ring with one side ground off. The ring part was thin. It was either very early T or possibly NRS.

Anyone ever seen one like that?????

Check Tim Mosher's photos on the EFR Forum, it looks like he may have a pattern for the 2-piece front casting. Dave C.

David C.
I guess I'm a little slow. What is "Tim Mosher's photos on EFR Forum"? Do you have a link or website address?
Verne

http://www.earlyfordregistry.com/morsher/morsher.html

What years did the 2 piece drive shaft go on? I have seen one and remembered some talk about them but know nothing about them. Would it worth it for me to try to find the one I saw again?

Bob

Bob they were used from late 09 through 1913 as I recall. Re whether it would be worth it for you to try to find the one you saw, I'd say yes. Going rate is $600 and up. I saw a very nice one sell at Bakersfield a couple years back for $800.