Hi all

YES……………………… !

I found the Ford model T of my dreams.

Today, I am very pleased to present my new purchase, a "Touring" 1912, N ° 120812 engine.
It has never been restored. I do not know the exact phrase in English but in France they say what is "out of barn" or "to have juice."
It was in a hangar for years, hidden under many objects and bulky.

This model T is almost complete, he misses the radiator Brass, tail light front and rear, and the horn, the by windshield was transformed to be fixed as the model of 1913.

It is strangely equipped with smaller wheels with tires in 120 x 90. (See photo) these smaller wheels been installed sometimes on certain T Ford sold in France. I know exactly why, can be 120 x 90 tires were easier to find.

It still has "Henri Depasse" plate which was the first importer of Ford in France.

I intend to fully restore this 1912.

How the find you? I await your comments.

Olivier (france)
http://www.ford-t.fr

With the spark plugs missing, is the engine stuck.

WOW, WOW, WOW!!!!! It is very "barn fresh" and dare I say, sexy. Great photos. Good lick getting it back from the children. Very great find. Keep dreaming and I can't wait to see more photos as you begin working on this lovely car.

Congratulations Olivier.

Erich

What a wonderful find!
The stories that car could tell!
It survived being in two World Wars!
Can you tell us some of the history behind it's survival?
Thank you for the story, especially interesting since there is another thread concerning another 1912 Ford like this one that was badly damaged recently.

Herb

A great find Oliver!!!! Can't wait for your progress reports and picutres to come.

Fantastic find. Tell us more on how it survived the wars and where it was stored so that it was not found before you did.

Great prize!

Are you sure you should restore it, Olivier? As they say, it is original only once. I would look at restoring the engine, rear end and wheels, but leave the body as original as possible.

I have a 1912 body very close in serial number to yours, and it is a better candidate for restoration, as it has non original paint and plastic upholstery. I wish we could trade.

rdr

A great find Oliver!!!! Can't wait for your progress reports and picutres to come.

Is the extra wheel a non taper axle? The hole in the hub looks bigger than usual.

Did you find it in an airplane hanger or was it a barn? Do you have pictures of where you found it. Did you manage to get any other documants with it? Truely amazing. It somehow survived 2 World wars?

You might find Harry Potters invisibility cloak in there somewhere!

Olivier,

Wonderful, I agree with Ralph in that it should be kept original as possible. the condition of the upholstery is pretty amazing & it's interesting to note the radiator is later but it seems to have retained the original hood.

Wonder if the "extras" weren't acquired during the occupation, doubt if the German's were comandeering Model T's as staff cars.

Alex

Oliver,
Now the fun begins. Either restore it completely to original, or get it running and keep it as is. It looks like a good project to keep you busy in your spare time. It's good that so much of it is original and in quite good condition.
Norm

That is a beautiful car Oliver. Felicitations!

Oliver, I think in French you would say, "C'est Magnifique"

OLIVIER, not oliver. It almost looks like you could throw on some hoses, spark plugs. gas and oil, and go for a drive. Please, more info and history. Lucky, lucky man.

Olivier,
Nice car!!! I bet you can't wait to get it running. A friend of mine is restoring a 1912 T and is curious about the color. Can you tell if the body was originally a dark blue or black? Was the chassis dark blue or black? I did not check the serial number to see if was built early or late in the year. The body looks like one of the later styles. Please keep us updated on what you find during the restoration.
Verne

What a great find.
I would also keep it original, replacing the missing items and repairing the engine and chassis components as necessary.
The leather upholstery can be treated with "SOFFENER Leather Conditioner" from COLOR-PLUS Leather Restoration Systems, LLC.
I used this product on the original leather upholstery in a 1912 Buick and was amazed on how soft it turned out.

Salut Olivier!

Quels tresor! Laisser ton char original, ou presque...pas besoin d'une resto au complet.

Change les roues, le toit, nettoyer la reste, des detailles en brass, et bonne routier!


Felicitations!

Well, I am certainly jealous!
Please keep us up to date on your progress, with lots of pictures, Olivier.
Joe

Except for the radiator, that is a fantastic find. Definitely, I would keep it as original as it can be nicely. Carefully rebuild the engine and rear axle (keeping the original paint intact), replace the radiator with a nice original. Put new tires on good original wheels, they can be found. Carefully pack away or display the tattered original top for future research, and replace it for appearance and tour-ability. Treat the upholstery as said above.
There are so many beautifully restored antique automobiles. Still many more that have been messed up enough that they no longer represent original. There are not enough presentable original cars left, yours could be one of the good ones.
My French is not good, but, oui, C'est magnifique.
W2

Sweet!!

Hi,

I am quite aware that this car should be preserved with are original appearance.
The pics are flattering and gives the impression that the painting is original. In fact it is nothing. The painting original (black) was covered by a layer of green paint, then another layer of black paint with a brush. Now painting is completely cracked and fell into pieces when hands on it. The right front fenders, likely remained under a gutter, is very rusty and there are many thrones. Having said that I try to keep the maximum element in the conservation status of origin, for example seats and door panels that are very can damage is that good treatment should find their brilliance of as.

Concerning the origin of this car, I don't know yet much, if it has been sold new by the first importer of Ford France "Henri DEPASSE" to Neuilly (close to Paris) and that this car then it is found in CLUNY (in the center of France).
I acquired a person lais don the business is to retrieve old materials. In 1999, he had been contacted by someone who had just inherited a hangar (industrial building) after the death of a great uncle, don special been all retrieve and never throw anything. During his lifetime that Mr. had accumulated so objects, garbage, and various scrap the hangar was fully completed on several “metres” of height.
When are small new to inherited this hangar, he contact the person who my sold Ford T that it takes care of cleaning and the removal of the hangar to sell. There were so many "Bazaar" that has had to use a tractor out all detritus. After several days of work, surprise! The Ford T 1912 appeared under the pile of detritus was the next to another car a Talbot. Nobody knew of the existence of two cars that had always remained invisible under the detritus.
The owner of the hangar to kept the Talbot and the person who is busy cleaning to keep the Ford. Unfortunately it at never taken pictures of this hangar and all the Bazaar was inside.
Then the Ford T remained his home because he intended to restore. But 10 years later, he had always started step works, and last week, he has contacted me (thanks to my website) to tell me that he wanted to sell it. It is located exactly I was looking for a new Ford T, then I immediately went to this 1912 and brought it with me last Tuesday.
Now, I'll try to do research to find history this Ford T 1912 cafeteria.

Another question: or is the serial number of the body on the 1912?

See you soon

Olivier

I hope that this text is understandable, as usual, I used an automatic translator.

1912 body number discussion - fairly long thread.

1912 body number discussion

Great car, fantastic find. It is nice to know there are still some out there waiting to be discovered.
I am in agreement with the majority who think it should be preserved as close as possible to it's original condition.
And yes, Olivier, your report makes good reading, even if automatic translators sometimes do substitute the wrong words.
How many Ts are known to the club in France? I have spent a lot of time in France but the only T I remember finding was a truck parked outside the Galerie 1900 museum in Arpaillargues.
Chris Martin

Olivier ;
Congratulations with your 1912 !!!
Our 1912 has # 118158 [ or is that a 1911 ????]
Did we passed your car when we had our international tour in CLUNY
See you in NOMANDIE end of June
Toon

There is many model T in France.

I have a list of 250 people which has 1 or several Ford model T. I do not have the number exact but one estimates between 500 and 600 Ford T are still present in France.

Of course it is not by much compared to the USA but France is a small country, and 2 wars made disappear much from cars.

Olivier

Olivier, fantastic! Those wheels are very unusual. Do you have any more information on them? Great find! Dave

Hello Anthonie.

I would be very happy to re-examine you with Pont-l'Evêque .

Appointment in one month in Normandy for the international concentration of Ford T.

The 1912 will not be present of course but we will be it with our 1924 like each year.


Olivier

I notice in the last photo that the car appears to have a USA front axle compared to the front axle on Olivier's other model T.
Does anyone know about the usage of these parts and the times they were used?
Thanks
Herb

Olivier,

If you use an automatic translator, your English must be as good as my French.
A long-time good friend of mine, one of the nicest, most charming people, that I have ever met, was born in Paris and speaks with a very heavy French accent. When I read your postings, I hear them in his voice.
It is interesting, also, that he has had a 1912 model T for the 40 years I have known him. His work (he is now retired) has taken he and it all over the world. I have seen photos of his car taken in France.
If you have noticed the forum threads about the 1912 T involved in a bad "accident" here in California, USA, my first worry was that it could have been him, or one of many other people that I know with 1912 model Ts. For three days (turned out an email response to me ended up in never-never land) I could not find out who it was. I was relieved for his sake to learn that he and his wife are visiting family in Paris right now. I wish I knew how to contact him, there, he would love to see your car.
And, yes, I have known John and Carolee Morrison for about fifteen years. Please send your prayers and wishes for a speedy recovery (and no lingering problems) their way.
Drive safely, W2

Herb,

My other Ford T axle front is typical of the Ford T assembled in France Ford plant in Bordeaux between 1924 and 1927. Therefore this 1912 may not be equipped with a front axle French.
In 1912, the Bordeaux factory did not exist yet. The Ford T arrived in wood fund us through the port of Le Havre, and was assembled at the "Henri Depasse" importer to Neuilly. They were identical to the American versions.
It is true that on it, wheels are not of the same size as models of Detroit. Even in France, this kind of wheels is very rare. I've seen other identical wheel once in made.

Wayne.

You can forward my e-mail to your friend who speaks French, I'd be happy to communicate with him.
olivier@ford-t.fr


I also have another question.
The coil box is missing. What was the fitted model 1912? Kingston? Heinze?

Olivier


French axle front 1924-1927.

Olivier-
Look on the top of the seat frame in front of the gas tank, and under the front and rear doors to locate body numbers.

I'd love to see some pictures of the front seat upholstery where the front door latches.

Nice find.
-Keith

Olivier, that french front axle looks like the english axle. Are they the same? Dave

Since the Model T chassis used to assemble cars in France (post - WWI) came from Ford of England one would think they should be the same.

The earlier car would have been built in Dearborn in 1912.

Olivier, congratulations my friend! We salute you!

The '24-27 Front axle is from the 'drop-frame' car - all design, tooling and manufacture done in Manchester - see the English T Ford book from the Model T Register for full story. I don't know when exactly they made the decision to supply France from Manchester, but certainly Olivier's 1912 would be a US import.

Olivier, I shall be in Pont L'Eveque in June - anything I should know about driving my T in France?

Oh, I forgot to say - Fabulous Car! I am so jealous.

I once owned a 1912 Model T with engine number 120841. It had been a roadster and was rebuilt as a "Depot Hack". I bought it in about 1995 and sold it in 2004. It is now in Elk River, Minnesota. It came out of North Dakota in about 1970.

Hello everyone,

Keth,
The Ford was parked in a garage a few miles from my home, I would see the number of body Saturday.
Here are pictures of the seats and the rear door. The lock on the front door is missing.




Dave
Yes I think that the front axle is the same as that found in England.

Royce
Yes, you are right the 1912 was built in Dearborn. By cons chassis assembled in France does not come from England but directly from the USA.

Jem
I am very happy to see you « Pont l’évêque »..
To drive your Ford T in France, by the failure not forget to drive on the right, nothing special.

Darel
Do you have pics of the 1912 ? It's fun to think that they should be on the production line at the same time and now they are so far but still exists.

Soon friends

Olivier

FANTASTIC BUY.

I do have somewhere. There was a Model T International Meet in St. Louis Park about 15 years ago and that T was pictured there, as every T at the meet was pictured. I also have some photos somewhere. I will look.

Olivier, from your engine serial number, it appears that your car was built in April or May of 1912, so the coilbox could have been a Heinze, a Kingston, or possibly a K-W, though I think your car is little early to have used a K-W.

The Heinze coil would have been the same unit used since January 1911, a T-4600 using T-4611 units with small details unique to late 1912. The Kingston coil would have been the T-4706 that used the large bakelite switch. The coil units would have been T-4238, also known as the "low bridge" style Kingstons.

Pardon me Olivier, this is off topic a bit.

R.V.
Say more about the KW boxes for 12 please. I have a touring #144XXX and was curious whether this box could be correct for this late July car? Can you pinpoint when these showed up in 12, and did the Heinze and Kingston boxes continue into the 1913 production?
Regards,
Scott

Yes; Heinze and Kingston both were used into '13, but I doubt that the Kingstons were used after calendar 1912 and most likely disappeared sometime in the fall. The 4600 Heinze with lunchbox clip latches and 4611 coils, updated in late 1912 with the one-piece 4736 armature, continued well into '13, quite possibly through the end of the model year.

Although the wooden K-W box with the unique 4681 coil unit is strongly associated in most restorers' minds uniquely with 1913, I think that it's possible that very late '12 saw their first appearance. If I were judging a late July car, I would not deduct for a K-W coil, though it would most likely provoke some lively discussion among the other judges. Of course, additional research which I have scheduled for this summer may reveal more information.

Much appreciated R.V.
Regards,
Scott

Much appreciated R.V.
Regards,
Scott

oops....sorry...fat fingered again
Scott

Hello with all,

I went today near the 1912. The number of body is the 40374.

I also took a pics of the coils box. Since the engine of this car left in May 1912, is it possible that this coils box out of metal is of origin?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Olivier

Does the body number have a prefix, Olivier? The Bxxxx which is found on most 1912 bodies is for body maker Beaudette.

Here's mine:

Bizarre!!!

I did not see a letter before the number. Look at the pics, it does not seem that a letter precedes the number.

What meant this letter?

Olivier

As to that coil box. It appears to be an angled top with round corners. The box and switch about the same vintage, probably all 1915. That is the only year for that particular top. At least in the U.S.
The coils themselves are "copper topped". Copper and brass topped coils of that size were used from late 1913 until (I think )late 1916. They do not fit the earlier coil boxes as their size is just wrong for them.
I keep coming back to look at this thread because your 1912 is just fantastic and I like to look at the pictures again. And again. And---
W2

Olivier,

The correct coil box for your car is entirely of wood construction. I would expect Heinz or Kingston manufacture.

Olivier-
If it had a B it woulhave stood for Beaudett.
If it had an H it would have sood for Hayes.
Does anyone know were there Wilson or American Bodies in 1912?

Olivier,

Congratulations on a very great find.

May I ask how far you are located from Tournon or Vivieres?

My wife and I will be spending summer holiday in south Central France in mid-August. If you are located not too far away from where we will be and would be agreeable,,it would be nice to get together and see your trophies, share some wine, and talk T over a good meal at a local restaurant! Language is not a problem, my wife is fluent and worked in France many years.

Keith, there's great reading at http://www.coachbuilt.com/ . . C.R. Wilson is a good place to start.

rdr

Hello George,

We live to “le Puy-en-Velay” A only 137 km of “Tournon” and 128 km of “Vivier”, We would be very happy to meet you in August, to make you visit our small city and if you wants to discover our model T and some French old cars.

With which date thinks you of coming to France?

Olivier

Le Puy en Velay : http://maps.google.fr/maps?q=45.037581,3.881478&num=1&t=h&sll=45.043678,3.885249 &sspn=0.063088,0.128059&hl=fr&ie=UTF8&ll=45.037891,3.882347&spn=0.003783,0.00687 7&z=17

I think I can see the faint top of a B (for Beaudette) in the picture of your body number, Olivier.

I thought it looked like a D ???

Roger-
Kind of floating a little?

Maybe some gentle cleaning or some real light sanding with fine sand paper would reveal it.

Hello,


I looked at more closely, by using polish It seems that he is written EBC, but I am not certain for the E.


Olivier