Can anyone tell me the correct size of the T-200 drill bit? I need to buy a few new drill bits that fit through the brass guide. If anyone can provide information on a bit that can drill through tool steel that would work even better. (My situation appears to be a broken "easy out" from a previous owner).
John,
I once had a broken rear axle in an MG TD. To remove the stub that was still in the carrier the repair shop inserted a metal rod insulated with a hose into the axle housing and used an arc welder to fuse the end of the rod to the stub. I wonder if something along that line could be used to remove the "Easy Broken" from the bolt piece. Perhaps using a small carbon rod with an arc welder could burn the piece out or get it hot enough to soften it. Also a carbide burr or small grinding stone might be able to grind the piece out.
Just some thoughts.
Art
The drill is a letter size S which is .348
John,
You may also want to try using smaller drills and working your way up to larger bits. I have found that helpful to me in the past. The smaller drill bits cost less and they appear to make a little more progress depth wise than the larger drill and that is encouraging to me. You may need to make a bushing to fit inside your current guide so the small bit stays centered. Note – once you have the pilot hole drilled in the bolt/easy out – you can work your way to a larger bit. I would suggest trying a left hand bit as you get to the larger size drills (available at McMaster-Carr at: http://www.mcmaster.com/ and then search on left hand drill bit as well as other locations). The broken bolt may back out with the left hand drill bit. If not – keep going larger to remove it all. Remember to drill slow speed and use cutting oil or other oil.
See also:
http://www.ehow.com/about_4703523_drill-bits-hardened-steel.html
http://www.askthebuilder.com/How_To_Drill_Hard_Steel_Video.shtml
http://www.wlfuller.com/html/drills_for_hardened_steel.html (I looked at Lowe’s web site but I did not see the listing for their high speed drills for drilling hardened steel, but I believe that is where I last purchased some.)
Setting up a stand for your drill could help ensure you drill straight and not crooked down the broken bolt. Although if you are using a guide going through the head bolt hole – you may be fine with just that.
See also the discussion on the Flathead V8 site: (also recommended by several other folks: http://www.reds-headers.com/html/red_s_engine_talk_20.html
If you are handy with welding see: http://idisk.mac.com/forever4/Public/pages/studremoval.htm where they weld a washer and nut to the stud. The head would be removed for that one.
If you happen to hit much of the threads in the block then using the thread repair kit will probably be needed – especially if you are going with the higher compression heads that get torqued down more.
And there are some folks that have access to an electrical process that will remove the bolt – but again the engine may need to be pulled and taken to their shop if they cannot get to it while it is in the car.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.
Didn’t see any mention if the bolt is flush with the top of block or below the surface. If flush most times after heating (heating moves the metal breaks loose the rust and crude) it can be started with a center punch, not to sharp or to dull, don’t really want to cut only get a “grip”. Have taken out a bunch over the years like this. If sunk it is another story
Generally carbide tipped drill for drilling holes in concrete will drill through same dam hard stuff, they are a lot cheaper than some high dollar drills and do the same job. I can’t recall ever tackling a an easy out other than after heating couple times smashed into pieces with a hard punch, but that has always been 5/8 bolt and bigger
Thanks for all the information. The bolt is now about 1/8" below the block with no stub. I was able to drill that far...Maybe drill, sharpen, drill, sharpen, etc...
John
We used to use left handed drill bits for this. Sometimes they will catch and turn it out.
Where would you get left-handed drill bits?
Jerry, good idea on the carbide tipped bits. I have heard of them being used to drill springs, but I have never tried it myself. Might be worth a shot. Dave
You can sharpen an HSS drill bit and then drill with it as many times as you like, but it will never drill out a broken off easy-out. Your best bet is to heat it up with an oxy- acetylene torch, shoot the oxygen down into it with a quick burst, stop and inspect, try to drive a center punch into it to upset what's left. You may have to do this numerous times.
It's easy to tell Kent has done this before. I might add , you have got to keep breathing while you are doing the work with the torch, your body will want to shut down, it's just too scary. But, it works and you and the block can live through it. Use the smallest tip you have. Happy Motoring, Bob
11/32 is the drill bit size.
What is helicoil and how is it used? What size? I drill out the broken bolt, but cannot thread.
John,
A helicoil is a repair for a damaged female thread. The hole gets drilled out a larger size, threads are cut with a special tap and a spring like coil is screwed in place. The thickness of the coil brings the oversize hole back to the correct size. Helicoil kits are available at most auto parts stores, the common sizes stocked are usually 1/4 to 5/8 or so. They come in fine thread, course thread and metric. There was a Stevens tool and bushing set to do the same thing back in the day, but it is much thicker than a spring coil and removes too much material in my opinion.
Thanks for all the help.
Tonight, I was able to use a dremel to remove the broken bolt/bit/easyout or other metal from the hole. Then by chance, I was able to clean the threads out. The threads start around 1/3 the deep because of previous owner drilling (mentioned above). However, there are enough threads to hold the bolt tight.
Next step is to clean pistons off, regasket, and tighten 15 bolts down. Any tips on gasket, bolt torque, copper spray, carbon cleaning, etc. Should I add any oil to the pistons or lube any other parts while reassembling?
Thanks.
Congratulations on getting the hole cleaned out. The tough part is over.
I'll let the experts give you the best advice on re-assembly, so you don't have to deal with any other problems.
Anyone?
Can I start the engine as soon as I torque to 50 pounds or do I need to let the sealant dry?
What is the torque order?
Thanks!
John,
You can start it right away. After you run it check the torque again, then again...
There are some standard head bolt torque methods, I do not have one I can attach, but think of it as trying to bond something air tight together and trying to squeeze out an air bubble from the center. Start with the center most bolt and work inside out alternating between forward and rearward, left to right torquing to 30-35 ftlbs, then repeat to 40-45, then repeat 50-55. After you run it awhile you set the torque again to 50-55 ftlbs. Some wait for it to cool others do not. You may have to check the torque 3-5 times by running and letting it cool over the course of a few days befor you notoce it stops needing more torquing.
If the first 1/3 of the threads are bad it sounds like it needs a helicoil repair.
John,
I believe much of the information you are wanting is posted at: http://modelt.org/discus/messages/2/2578.html?1230791008 Note it shows two different sequences for tightening the bolts. Either will work. I like the second one Dan shares -- but both have been used successfully.
Also, with 1/3 of the threads gone -- I think you would probably save time and trouble later on to go ahead and drill, install the helicoil and then install the head.
As pointed out in the link -- be sure that all your bolts go all the way down and that none of them bottom out before they torque the head down -- or they can very easily twist off. Especially since the back one already did that once -- be sure the bolts are NOT too long. One method of doing that is to put the head on without the gasket. Run the bolts down by hand. Do they all go all the way down? If not – clean out that hole. In theory you can have different length bolts to match the different depth of the holes. But Murphy’s law says the long bolt will find it’s way to the short hole. So my preference is to make all the bolts the same length so they can be put in any hole. There are probably other methods that will also work – but be sure the bolt is NOT too long.
I like the K & W copper coat spray gasket cement [http://www.scegaskets.com/K-W-Copper-Coat-p6650081.html ] – but that is probably old school and note it is for use with copper (metal) gaskets. It has worked well for me and we routinely used it back in the 1960’s and 1970’s when I worked at a full service gas station (am I really that old?). Others have had good results with different methods. And most importantly – have you checked with a good straight edge to make sure the block and head are level? I don’t remember if your car was leaking water etc. into the oil or if you just had a sheared rear head bolt – but if it was leaking – that could be an indication the head and block are not mating well (or also that the head bolt is broken).
Hopefully that will get you started and others will chime in with corrections and or their own favorite way of replacing the head. Note, Ford did not use torque values back in the Model T Days. But the 45 to 55 depending on the posting for head bolts is a good guide not to exceed. Also – if you are using an aluminum head – follow the manufacture’s directions.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.