Rocky Mountain "6 Speed" OD for a speedster- Help needed!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Rocky Mountain "6 Speed" OD for a speedster- Help needed!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 03:10 pm:

I have found a few post on the older forums on the old Rocky Mountain "6-speed" overdrives, and just want to make sure I have things correct.

I know the "lovejoy" style connection pieces are available, but are all my connections, parts and bearings in the right place and am I missing anything?

Here is a drawing:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael W. Herndon on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 07:59 pm:

This is interesting, Clayton...

I have one of these and you might have read my post on it last year or the year before. I rebuilt mine and everything was in excellent condition. The stamps on it said "Rock Mountain 6 speed" and is just like the drawing you have. The interesting thing about these is that it fits to the rear end with the drive shaft between it and the 4th main. I did have to sleeve the connection of the shift yoke to the shift rod since the original hole was worn, but other than removing a burr or two from one of the gears, that was all..

There is some speculation going on at the moment that a Warford can mess with the alignment and lead to a broken crank and other issues. Presumably it was the weight of the Warford that contributes, thus the various designs of support of the Warford to the frame. Even one person well known uses a bungee cord!

One thing I have heard is that Ford never endorsed any addition to the drive shaft area for alignment problem reasons and that the Ruckstell was different and he did endorse it because it did not interfere with alignment in anyway since it is in the rear end, not in line with the drive.

So, back to the RM6 speed.. I did not install mine in my TT because I tried to find a Lovejoy connection and could not put one together as easily as I could just buy a Warford and put it in (which is what I did and it did cause alignment problems but I did not support it which I will/am now doing..).

I might be able to re-post some pictures of mine if you like. If you find a resource for the lovejoy connection, let me know!

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael W. Herndon on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 08:00 pm:

And I could be completely wrong, but there is no other bearing in the area of your question... I will look at mine again.

M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John M Maslack on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 08:38 pm:

Lovejoy connections are available from most industrial supply houses.They are used to connect motors, pumps etc. in many industrial applications....Thanks, John M.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 10:08 pm:

Clayton, are you sure that your R.M. is for a car? I have only seen them for TT's, but that sure don't mean nuthin'! If your's is for a car, that would make a nice setup, IMHO. Is this for another car, or are you going for a double overdrive? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:39 pm:

Well, Not really knowing Clayton, But understanding where his line of thinking directs him. I'll put money on it's going in the little black roadster. And I base my thinking on the fact that Clayton's got in the works "Modern" 4 wheel brakes from a 20's Buick?? I think?? It's going to be able to stop.....why not make it faster??
Am I right Clayton?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 12:09 am:

A buddy of mine is installing his Rockey Mountain six speed transmission on the back end of the T transmission because he didn't have that missing piece. It appears that it is going to work. I do not have pictures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Lovejoy on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 12:33 am:

My Rocky Mtn 6 speed, does not have a bearing there Clayton. But I too, dont know if there should be one there or not. My Trans looks brand new inside, not a chipped tooth anywhere. I was really surprised at that, I have a couple old motorcycles and most all their transmissions were beat to hell inside - scary really.
I could not figure out how to get those Hyatt bearings out of mine, just to check em. How do you guys do that? Thanks Tom.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 12:13 pm:

David and Scott,

I'm sorry to "burst your bubble", but the Rocky-Mountain is not for my car....though I have thought about it and would love to find another one...A "Double Overdrive" would be awesome: 18 speeds forward, 9 in reverse! :-)

The brakes you mention that I am retrofiting to my "sinister little roadster" are 1924-25 Chrysler 4-wheel Hydraulic (outside contracting band) brakes. Both Buick and Chrysler were messing around with 4-wheel brakes in the early 20's, but Chrysler was the only one to try hydraulic...Buick's were mechanical (I have a fairly complete set of these as well).

Michael and Tom,

I don't beleive that there is supposed to be a Hyatt bearing in the tail shaft housing either...the casting just isn't setup for a bearing like that, maybe a bronze bushing like the other end at the rear axle.



The Rocky-Mountain is actually destined for another car, a joint project between me and Chris Becker (whom you all know). Here is the rundown on our venture:

My good buddy Chris and his family have become like family to me over the years and it was actually his dad Bill that sold me the little '26 roadster that would become my lil' black roadster that you all know and tought me everything I know about how to make a project like that work. Both he and Chris helped me put the roadster together and it wouldn't be on the road had they not been there.

Bill has unfortunately been dealing with heath issues (poor joints and leg problems from years of commercial sand blasting) and major depression over the last year or 2 and, as a result, has not had any interest in the cars at all (a total 180 from his usual manor) which has been hard on all of us. Chris also has a wife and little boy of his own now, so does not have much time to help service all the cars up for Bill as he used to do, so I volunteered to handle the maintenance on all the cars in the Becker collection.

This year we were very surprised to see him become excited about car season! I made an effort to get all cars (the 1917 Hupmobile, 1919 Model T, 1906 Holsman "Auto-Buggy" and the '34 PII Rolls-Royce) ready, repaired and tuned for him to start driving again only to discover he can physically no longer get in or drive any of them safely, even his 1919 T touring...a car he has put more mile on then I can fathom! His poor joints and medications prohibit him from even getting his feet on the pedals or even getting behind the wheel of them...which was a big blow for him.

He doesn't really have a problem working the pedals so much as he simply can't get into the cars period...and if he did, they are tight enough that he can't lift his feet up on the pedals. Bill is a big boy and those cars are tight up front (I'm a young and slender guy and I have problems getting in 'em). If the seats were moved back a ways, he wouldn't have a problem. His 1909 Brush has plenty of leg room and he has no problem working the brakes.

Because of this, Chris and I are wanting to but together a another T for him, something simple and low to the ground that he won't have any trouble getting in or out of and be able to drive comfortably. We have a large amount of T stuff already (frame, front/ rear axles, springs, wheels, etc) so we should have a pretty good start


...Oh! and I should mention that this is also going to be a surprise for him...he has no idea we are putting this together for him! :-)

Here are a few pictures of what we have so far.

Clayton





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 02:25 pm:

WOW! Very nice!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 04:12 pm:

Thanks Jerry!

Chris and I are hoping to get the suspension hung and tires on in the next 2 weeks so that we can get the engine in and I can start building the body and fenders.

I have a little more to pin stripe yet, but have managed to get most of the wheels and the other little things done...they aren't perfect, but I'm learning still!

Clayton


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Magedanz on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 04:26 pm:

Very nice, Clayton. Just be sure to resist the temptation to use that jack in the first picture under your rear axle...lots of people on the forum with more experience than me have warned against using them on a Model T.
Keep up the nice work.
Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 05:07 pm:

Joseph,

Duly noted. Just curious as to the reasoning be hind that?

I have used it numerous times to lift the front axle with no problems what so ever and the the rear one side at a time the same. Just curious as to the reasoning be hind that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 05:08 pm:

Joseph,

Duly noted. Just curious as to the reasoning be hind that?

I have used it numerous times to lift the front axle with no problems what so ever and the the rear one side at a time the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 12:36 am:

I never had a RM six-speed. I did have a Universal three-speed-progressive-shift. It is almost the same thing, except in the car version, I don't think it used that Lovejoy connector. The Universal had a tall overdrive that generally required a four to one rear end gear. It had direct and a good under-drive. It was easy to shift and I liked to joke about having two neutrals to get stuck in. But it shifted so easily that it was never a problem.
Truck versions show up occasionally. The car versions are very rare, I wish I had one for every T I own.
Drive carefully, and you must be a great guy to build a car like this, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael W. Herndon on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 05:18 pm:

Clayton and all..

My RM 6 speed has one Lovejoy connector on it, and the one I needed was the other one that I could attach to the drive shaft. Other than that it is ready to use.

So I looked up the Lovejoy site and looked at all of their current attachments and none met the criteria for connecting with the old ones we have, or at least that is what I noted when I looked at what was available. I did not call the company but that might be a solution. I did consider having a machine shop here in town make something that would work but I got the Warford instead.

I have considered getting a used torque tube and a new drive shaft and getting them shortened to allow the RM6 to be used in my 12 roadster, keeping the original stuff untouched of course. I see no reason why it would not work in a car and being attached to the rear housing would seem to be adequate support without additional support as seems to be needed with the Warford.

So if anyone comes up with a Lovejoy that works, count me in for one of them!

Cars look great as usual, Clayton. Please keep us posted on what you come up with regarding the RM6..

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 12:02 am:

Clayton, I found somthing that might be near what your looking for. I'll try and include pictures in this post. Well my file is to big. Ill have to try later this evening, dinners on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 01:53 am:

2nd try



OK with a little of my son's help we have it. Is this what your're looking for? I checked the square drive on a T driveline and it seems correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 03:57 pm:

Scott! good eye my friend!

That is very similar to what the connection would have been, but is different from my Rocky O.D.

The one I have is actually a 3-tooth bit....but I could pull mine apart and use this as a complete replacement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 04:36 pm:

Well if you want it it yours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 04:48 pm:

Michael,Usually you buy both halves and the spider then machine to fit what you need.Rember one set screw on a key is never enough so put another at 90 deg's Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 12:39 pm:

Scott,

I certainly do! Thanks for the offer..will take you up on it as this will really help us a great deal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 01:51 pm:

It has been a while since I have updated this thread, but I thought I should.

As you know, my friend Chris and I were building this T speedster for his father, Bill, as a surprise Christmas gift this year...Her is a recap of the back story:

"My good buddy Chris and his family have become like family to me over the years and it was actually his dad Bill that sold me the little '26 roadster that would become my lil' black roadster that you all know and tought me everything I know about how to make a project like that work. Both he and Chris helped me put the roadster together and it wouldn't be on the road had they not been there.

Bill has unfortunately been dealing with heath issues (poor joints and leg problems from years of commercial sand blasting) and major depression over the last year or 2 and, as a result, has not had any interest in the cars at all (a total 180 from his usual manor) which has been hard on all of us. Chris also has a wife and little boy of his own now, so does not have much time to help service all the cars up for Bill as he used to do, so I volunteered to handle the maintenance on all the cars in the Becker collection.

This year we were very surprised to see him become excited about car season! I made an effort to get all cars (the 1917 Hupmobile, 1919 Model T, 1906 Holsman "Auto-Buggy" and the '34 PII Rolls-Royce) ready, repaired and tuned for him to start driving again only to discover he can physically no longer get in or drive any of them safely, even his 1919 T touring...a car he has put more mile on then I can fathom! His poor joints and medications prohibit him from even getting his feet on the pedals or even getting behind the wheel of them...which was a big blow for him.

He doesn't really have a problem working the pedals so much as he simply can't get into the cars period...and if he did, they are tight enough that he can't lift his feet up on the pedals. Bill is a big boy and those cars are tight up front (I'm a young and slender guy and I have problems getting in 'em). If the seats were moved back a ways, he wouldn't have a problem. His 1909 Brush has plenty of leg room and he has no problem working the brakes.

Because of this, Chris and I are wanting to but together a another T for him, something simple and low to the ground that he won't have any trouble getting in or out of and be able to drive comfortably. We have a large amount of T stuff already (frame, front/ rear axles, springs, wheels, etc) so we should have a pretty good start


...Oh! and I should mention that this is also going to be a surprise for him...he has no idea we are putting this together for him! :-)"


2 months ago, Bill suffered a choking accident at a church breakfest and, as a result, lost consciousness and both his breathing and his heart stopped. The EMT's were quick to the scene and were able to get his heart and breathing started once again...making him safe for transport to the ER...he did not however, regain consciousness. As much as we had hoped that Bill would return to us, he passed away about October 13th. He had been brought back to normal body temp after the cooling/re-warming procedure was complete...but showed no change. It was determined that he was no longer breathing on his own and had suffered irreparable brain damage and swelling with no chance of recovery. The family made the choice to remove life support and he passed away peacefully surrounded by his family, loved ones and very close friends.

his son Chris and I will continue to work diligently to complete his T as we had planned in his honor.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 03:46 am:

Clayton, good to hear from you again! So sorry to hear of your friends passing, I'm sure he would have had a ball in that speedster. Looks like you guys are off to a good start. It's great that you guys are building it in Bill's memory, i'm sure he would be proud. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Owen - Elizabethtown, KY on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 06:00 am:

Clayton, I resent a email that I sent in August concerening the RM transmission. I may have the wrong email address so let me know if not received.
Here is a picture of my lovejoy coupling which is machined on the end of the jackshaft. There is 2 large Hyatt bears that are inside the housing for this shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Paddison on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 01:32 pm:

Charlie!

I did get your email and thank you for all of the complete data! Chris and I are still working on the Rocky Mountain 6-Speed, but due to our "deadline" of Christmas and to streamline the build to make that goal, we were forced to go with a traditional, already rebuilt Warford. The R-M will be put into Chris and I's next T endeavor.

Maybe I can talk him out of it for my T :-)


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