OIL----a new rehash of an old topic

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: OIL----a new rehash of an old topic
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L. Vanderburg on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 02:41 pm:

Just came back from Advance Auto, and saw a product on the shelf: Shell SAE30ND non-detergent oil.

The API service code is SB, and specifically states on the package that it's an obsolete service code and the oil should only be used in engines older than 1951.

Several applications are mentioned on the back: tractors, antique engines and automobiles, etc.

Is this something new, or has it been out for a while?

I don't want this to become a tirade on which oil is better or what has more Zinc.

Just putting the information out there.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sven Becker on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 03:13 pm:

William,

there are some similar products on the european market:

From Millers Oils: Classic Millerol M30 and M40, both non-detergent.

From Castrol: Classic XL 30, very lighty detergent.

Regards from Germany

Sven


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lang on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 03:26 pm:

Here in Canada, you can even buy 30 non detergent oil at walmart.
Also, castrol non detergent30 at the parts store, for twice the price.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 04:08 pm:

Non-detergent SAE 30 is nothing new. However, fewer stores carry it compared to years ago.

25 years ago I worked at a gas station/convenience store. We stocked and sold a lot of non-detergent SAE 30. It was mainly bought by poor people and kids who drove heaps that burned a lot of oil. For under a dollar, they could buy a quart of non-detergent and keep driving their car. The cheapest non-detergent SAE 30 was usually reclaimed/recycled oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 05:22 pm:

William - Not to get your thread off topic, but Eric just touched upon a subject that I have often wondered about. "Reclaimed" motor oil. And "reclaimed" just might be the key word there. Let me explain:

When I was a high school kid in the '50's and had my first Ford (a '28 Model A) we had a next door neighbor that who, with his uncle, had a business where they processed and "reclaimed" used motor oil. And I know that the term was definately "reclaimed" as I'm pretty sure the '50's was before anybody even thought about recycling anything.

Anyway, this neighbor of mine was a chemist and told me all about their business and their one and only product, "reclaimed" motor oil. He said that this reclaimed oil had certain properties after processing that made it, in some ways, better than new oil straight from the refinery. For one thing, he said reclaimed oil was "tempered", which was (obviously to him) a desirable quality. Now here's the part that always especially stuck in my mind. He told me that Grayhound saved and sent in ALL of the motor oil that they drained out of their buses because of whatever qualities the reclaimed drain oil had that Grayhound wanted. He said that Grayhound actually preferred this "reclaimed" oil to new motor oil. Does any of this make any sense? And was this just "hype" from a guy that made his living at this reclaimed oil business, or is there some validity to this? I can tell you that he was a very intelligent fellow and sure seemed to me to know what he was talking about.

I'm wondering if there is such a thing as "reclaimed" motor oil nowadays, or if motor oil is just "recycled" for other purposes,....???

Anybody,.....???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 07:26 pm:

I hope so because where is all that drained oil going that I set out on recycling day?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 07:57 pm:

Yes, re-refined base stocks will have a higher viscosity index than virgin base stocks.

In use in the engine, many of the undesirable molecules of oil will burn off.

Since they are gone when re-refined, the base stock is closer to synthetic where most all of the molecules are the desirable ones.

This doesn't mean that re-refined finished oil is better than virgin oil. Since few want it, it gets less price in the marketplace - so for it to be profitable, less "goody" is added (detergents/dispersants, anti-foaming agents, etc.) to keep the price down.

What you heard, Harold, is indeed the truth.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 09:09 pm:

Seth,I'll bet that straght 30 is great for starter,battry,and jumper cable sales in Canada?? Bud,Eh??.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 09:15 pm:

I'll bet, Bud!

The non-detergent variety is good for sealing your engine up so that it stops leaking.

That's about all it's good for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard G Goelz on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 09:29 am:

Back in the fifties reclaimed oil was sold in most gas stations for .25 per quart,it came in glass bottles with a spout attached.We used a lot of it in our junkers.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 09:51 am:

I remember that Rick - but well into the 60s (I was born in '58).

Re-refined oil was/is marketed at local AutoZones and they are pushing the "greenness" of it.

It wasn't/isn't cheap, either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Lang on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 10:11 am:

Multigrade falls out of my leaky car too past, and I get puddling on the drive way. This 30 is perfect, I am slowly paving the center of my concrete driveway with the car. It is also helpful to keep the dust down. Of course, it does get a bit rainbow-y around my place when it rains....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 08:22 pm:

You can seal a lot of the leaks around the crankcase if you wipe it clean with solvent and then smear some ultra black along the seam between the crankcase and hogs head or around the engine. Find the areas that are leaking and seal them. Next time you have it apart, use ultra black on all the gasket surfaces. It's surprising how many leaks you can seal with that stuff. If it leaks around the u joint, pump in more grease. Grease will stop or slow down oil leaks in that location.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 09:54 pm:

Norman is that ultra black different than bitumen roofing tar?
:-)
Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 11:02 pm:

They say it works especially well on the Dr's. coupes and the cars with the wooden batteries.
or any T that has a water pump and has been converted to 12 volts.
I'm in Ca., every store I go in I see non-D Castrol and non-D at Walfarts too.
There will always be those who will buy non-detergent oil. Their uncle was a mechanic and he told them once that that new detergent oil was bad for any engine and that the detergent displaces more oil.
The same guy told them to ALWAYS use high test gas in any engine.
All seriousness aside, rotating the inner tubes every year will help you loose weight. My uncle told me that years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 12:56 am:

The actual name of the product is Permatex ULTRA BLACK maximum oil resistance rtv silicone gasket maker

Formador de juntas silicon rtv de maxima resistencia de aceite PX #82180

I bought it at NAPA.

You can use the older permatex if you want to, but it is brown and more noticeable. The Ultra Black doesn't show because of the color. It works best if you use it on the gasket surfaces while you assemble the engine, but if you find that it has a leak, it greatly helps seal it if you work it in around the seams. This is a much better sealer than bitumin roofing tar. :-)
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 01:23 am:

I must refer you all to the "Egyptian" post here on the forum. It appears that vacuum oil is what you are seeking and if it lives up to it's name, should solve all the oil leakage problems on the early Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 09:20 am:

Vacuum Oil Company was a petroleum company in the United States, founded in 1866. It later merged with Socony, which eventually changed its name to Mobil, and today is part of ExxonMobil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 09:21 am:

Sorry, wrong thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 02:39 pm:

Are any of you guy's or gal's, engineer types familiar with this viscosity test mentioned below? It was apparently used back in the day and probably long since obsolete. I glanced at some modern viscosity tests and my eyes glazed over immediately. If we could figure out what weight was within the "300 through 800 second" test, maybe we could put part of this mystery to bed.

For the full article see the "Oil Test" section of, http://www.mtfca.com/books/Course.htm

"To get the most economical, fuel consumption and the best relative power, the lightest oil which will properly lubricate the motor, should be used. For example, an oil with a viscosity of 100 seconds would soon cause the pistons and bearings to "seize."
Road and laboratory tests have proven that the highest economy of fuel and oil, with the best relative horsepower is developed by using an oil with a viscosity ranging between 300 and 800 seconds."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 03:01 pm:

John,

The terminology is still used. Base oil viscosities such as 325 (Saybolt Universal Seconds, or SUS) and 600 I used in two-stroke oil formulations.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 03:27 pm:

Seth, Any idea what viscosities would fit in the range of 300 to 800 SUS?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grady Puryear on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 03:50 pm:

Reclaimed oil has been around forever. The last big operations I saw were in the 1970's, it was really a big deal. I knew any number of people who reclaimed oil at home, especially the big farmers. They used Fuller's Earth to filter it through. The old time gas compressors that ran on natural gas never changed the oil, it stayed clean because of the natural gas fuel, just added to it and would change at hourly intervals and the oil reclaimed. I remember very well when reclaimed oil was available almost everywhere, still a good idea, just not hungry enough yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 04:50 pm:

John,

I believe that 600 is about like 30 wt. so I'll venture a guess and say 800 is something like 40 wt. and 300 something like 10 wt.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 05:22 pm:

The 600 that was used in the T rear end is/was a semi fluid! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 06:00 pm:

Non detergent oil is not ideal for a Model T, or any car that is driven any distance. It is the reason older engines are caked on the inside with a waxy / tarry sludge. It should not be used in anything you care about.

Non detergent oil is specified by manufacturers of high performance cam shafts for use during break in of flat tappet cams. These are NOT the cams used in Model T engines, these are camshafts in high performance engines like the 427 Fords out in my garage.

The non detergent oil is preferred for the 20 minute period of camshaft run - in for this unique application. Non Detergent oil is preferred for this because it will not wash off the camshaft break in lubricant as quickly as will detergent oil. After the 20 minute break in period the ND oil is drained because if left in the engine it will rapidly cause sludge to develop, which will ruin any engine.

Do not use non - detergent oil in a Model T. It will cause your engine to die an early death.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration