The Depot Hack Body saga continues -----

My new dear friend Greg has been helping me with some dimensions. He shared with me that his 27 Hack is about 82 inches tall. This is about 6.8 feet tall. His '27 has 21 inchers. My 20 Touring has 30 x 3 1/2. He says that my Hack would be about 86 inches tall or about 7.1 feet tall from tires to roof. Is that height pose a tip over / top heavy issue? I know that this is a Model T and only going 30 MPH but what about roll over?

Should I lower the height of the car?

Thanks

Balloon tires are 4.5x21. , , , 4.5x2 = 9" of tire . . 9+21=30" total height.

There is almost no Difference in height between balloon tires and clinchers. 30x3 or 30x3.5 .

Keep the top as light as possible, and taper the uprights if you can.

If I had a top heavy T, I would look into anti-sway bars; period correct or not.

rdr

The height difference between 21" (inside measure) and 30" (outside measure) at radius vs, diameter is only about 1/2" given equal tread depth. So, an identical body would be almost the same height.
As to roll-over risk, there are two important considerations.

1. It is the center-of-gravity point that determines the level of roll-over risk. So, you want to built the top portions of the body solid and strong, to tolerate the wind and vibration stresses of driving and trailering. But, you also want to build it as light as reasonable so that it doesn't raise the center-of-gravity very much. Use lighter woods with adequate metal brackets for strength.

2. The center-of-gravity on an antique automobile is higher than on a modern average car because the chassis with most of the weight is higher plus the passengers sit much higher. On the plus side, a depot hack has a lower c-o-g than any sedan due to windows and heavy top. Ts travel slow enough that it reduces roll-over risk.

BUT, never forget that roll-over IS a risk. It is a risk we accept in order to do what we love to do. We love to drive these cars. If you cannot accept that risk, you must never drive a Jeep either. Or a "lifted" 4X4. (Of course a T offers less protection in the event of a roll-over). There, in fact, was a serious roll-over of a touring on a major tour this past summer.
The fact is, roll-overs are rare. They do happen. Usually because someone did something they should not have done.

As to lowering the top, dropping it four inches would make it look really funny and maybe uncomfortable. Plus, it would only lower the center-of-gravity about one inch relative to the engine and transmission.

If you will notice, on most postings and depending upon the subject, I leave with one of two closings.
Drive safely, or
Drive carefully, W2

My hack is 86 1/2" tall at the center rear. It weighs 1840 lbs., only 100 lbs. more than my roadster. Most of the weight of a T is in the chassis.

Hope this helps.

Pete

My hack is 86 1/2" tall at the center rear. It weighs 1840 lbs., only 100 lbs. more than my roadster. Most of the weight of a T is in the chassis.

Hope this helps.

Pete

Thanks Wayne and Everyone !

Wayne, does a Depot Hack have a greater roll over risk then compared to any other body, say a Touring?

Alexander,

I'll jump in here, I don't think so. If you drive recklessly anything can roll over. The way most of us drive, it's as safe as anything else! JMO

We had a 23 touring as well, and the Hack feels a bit more on the tippy side - but I think that a lot of that feeling comes because we have no doors, so you feel as though you are sitting more "on" on than "in" it.

My hack is much more tipsy than my touring car, all using the same size tires. The extra weight of the slatted, oak, wooden roof sure makes a difference. I don't dare go around some corners at the same speed in the hack as the touring car. It is not all that bad, but be careful when turning. The extra hauling room is well worth it, so my wife says!
Tom

Sounds like if we make the roof from soft wood and put a rubber or vinyl cover, that should help the weight. Believe me, I plan on slowing way down to take corners. How do you even "slow way down" from 25 MPH ! LOL !

Alex: I think you are the one that I sent the inches to on my Hack. Mine is a "17" one a standard frame I measured it at the highest point in the back and it was 81 1/2 and in the front it was 79 inchesat the highest point from the floor. The length is 106 3/4 body only and 44 inches wide and add 20 inches to covern the fenders.

bill d

I have two T's that are high, the Town Car is just over 7 ft (at back of rear door ) and the Kamper which is 7ft 3in.

The roof of the TC is 1/8" ply covered with leather the Kamper is 1' by 1/4" slats with headlining cloth, thin canvas and waterproof cloth.

They never give me any indication of wanting to roll over but one normally approaches corners and adjusts the speed accordingly.

Obviously drive it too fast around a sharp corner cambered the wrong way and you can roll it over.

Wayne hit it on the head, the most important thing is that it looks right. Don't cut down the height for any reason it will look wrong. The TC mentioned at Model T Haven is a good example of that.

When I built the TC I had to replaced the garage doors as it was too high to get out. I then moved and made sure the new house had door height enough to allow the TC to get out. Then I built the Kamper ( I knew its height as I measured the only original one around then) The house is double brick, I had to remove a two rows of bricks above the door.

There are lots of Depot Hacks around check the correct height from a similar one and if you need to work out a way to get it under any door. I think an easy way would be to alter the roof pillars so you can remove the top which should be light enough for two people to lift off.


t

Too bad I'm not an artist. . Oh, Frank!

You could put double hinges in the pillars so that unlocking them would allow the top to move back and down. Put one hinge where each pillar joins the top, and the other half a foot lower.

Hmm, I wonder if I can do that with my Roadster top?

Alex, don't forget the height of your garage door! I had to remove the trim/weatherstrip and replace the 3/4" board with a 1/4" board so my 1913 touring would clear!!!
Charlie

Build it strong but build it pretty. A well built ugly car will remain around for many years to offend the eyes of nice folk. One common major fault with depot hack design is that folks build the top level all the way from the front to the back as shown in the first picture below. I am not making fun of the first picture but it is cut straight from the front to the back and is not a pleasing to the eye as one with proper curved surface, in my honest opinion.

It should have a slight crown near the front much as Fred Houston's 1912 Depot Hack has and then it will be pleasing to the eye.

That red hack is probably the prettiest one I've seen. A "Depot Hack" body with a "Pie Wagon" roof line. Actually the only one like it I've seen.

My 1919 Mifflinburg bodied hack is exactly 6 foot 11.5 inches tall with about 40 psi of air in the tires.

We learned this the first time I put the car in my gargage because the 7 foot door left an opening of only 6 foot 11 inches.

I removed the molding at the top of the door and ended up with an opening of 6 ft 11.75 inches. Now that we have 55 psi in the tires I might have to use the sawzall on the door frame to get the vehicle out. LOL

PS I have already heard multiple comments about my having to sit in the vehicle to get it in the garage.

How about a set of vacuum shocks? Use engine vacuum to compress the springs, lowering the car. Who knows? It might even ride better, or at least be more stable in turns.

rdr

It would have to really suck for that to work!

Thank you all ! Frank - Another life changing suggestion ! I love the pie wagon roof. I will for sure do that. And yes, guys, thanks for the tip on the garage door ! The side of the garage that I have my T on now would not fit a HACK. In fact it would not have fit on my Touring with the top up. Luckily I have a garage on the other side that has a 8 foot door.

Garage doors are always a problem, I am building a Hack based on the York Suburban, and worked out it will be about six inches too tall, but that's ok, as I am building a carport on the side, it will be higher and still has good weather protection (the sun is the main worry here in Australia) but it does mean I can do most of the work inside, and then move it all to the side for final assembly. Still the way I am progressing so far, man will be on Mars by then!
Chris M.

Only thought of this after I turned off the computer last night.

We had several members drive around Australia in 2008. As a lot of the route is wilderness, well desert or similar it was necessary for them to take with them some form of accomodation as motels were not on the cards in some areas.

Some decided the way to go was to use the "on roof 4x4 camping tents" which go on a roof rack. here they are.

The red pie van belongs to Richard Day, the green one Ian Whittle, and Gary Amesbury's grey camper had a bed which folded out of the side but had a tent on the top side of the roof which went out over the bed. None of the guys had any trouble with them being top heavy.

I have a Depot Hack that is built by a popular set of plans....The gent that I bought it from lowered the roofline and windshield 3" so it would fit a 7' opening......I'm glad he did or I would have had to make the roof come off somehow.....If I ever move to a place with a barn or shop with tall doors I'll build another one the correct hieght,,,,A little more head-room would be nice......I like Ricks idea too....Maybe sort-of metal steak-pocket affair that the top slipped in and out of would work ..............Hope everybody gets out and Drives or Works On their "Ts" this 3 day W/E......Be Safe...Carl

I recently turned my wrecked pickup into a hack and I can't imagine any hack top so heavy it would cause a topheavy concern. I've not had a problem or even thought about it until you mentioned it. Mine moves along pretty well with it's Model A crank and aux trans with overdrive. The overall height was a problem for hauling in my enclosed trailer, but, the Model A wheels/bolt pattern allow me to replace the rears with 15 in wheels(no tires)and winch it in for long trips. (I haven't hauled it anywhere yet, but the measurements say it should work)

If the top is too tall you might be able to dig wheel ruts in the floor instead of cutting the doorway, Depends on the floor composite

I have seen a drawing somewhere that shows the CG in the touring with 4 people more or less right behind the drivers butt behind the seat about level with the top of the gas tank when under the seat. Seemed high to me, but the thought stuck.

On depot hacks, there is a lot of real timber below this point, and tops done right don't weigh that much so it would seem to me the CG wouldn't change all that much!

As to driving sensible? That always prevails and will share a story for those that want to say 'bah humbug' on a roll done under near sensible conditions!

25 Fordor, a small hill, sharp left curve at the bottom. Was doing maybe 30 as it's a Fordor and decided to just coast the hill and the curve without changing gas or speed. WRONG!

Right in the middle of the curve, the left side lifted just enough that I could feel it, a tap of the brake caused a 'd'oh' as when the one wheel is off it has no effect due to diff spinning, so I pulled up on the hand brake hard! A one sided skid followed by a thump as it settled down firmly on all 4, no damage done. Learned my lesson then and there, sensible is always just one level below cautious!

Good point about the tranny braking in a turn, George. Traction equals coefficient of friction times weight applied. Reduce the weight, as on an inside wheel in a turn, and you have reduced traction. Doesn't matter how much weight is on the outer wheel. Now that could get scary in a hurry.

Somebody oughta' graph this...


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This is probably the drawing noted in prior post. I would place the cg about 30-36" high on a Touring; higher on a closed car. 36" is about the top of the tank. It will depend on the number of SOB*, of course.

rdr

*SOB = Souls On Board (from aviation)

It is easy for anyone to determine the center of gravity of their vehicle.
This is from a Stock Car Chassis Guide that I have used for years to help us determine why a vehicle did not handle correctly.

The first step is to determine the static center of gravity and then we calculate the roll axis.
The CG is simple. We usually do it with the driver on board because his enlarged butt can make a difference.




Although getting a scale with enough capacity can be a bit of a problem it is only a bump in the road because we have used a standard bathroom scale and with a lever to get the weight and do each wheel seperatly. Just keep the center of all the wheels at the required height when recording the weight.



PS As shown below the CG is not always down the center line of the vehicle.
Sometimes we need to know the cross vehicle position.
This is especially important with a Supremodified but can apply to vehicles with big people sitting on one side. In the olden days the riding mechanic shifted the CG by hanging out of the side of the vehicle.
Now days Motorcycle guys do it.

Here is an ISMA Super with a slight offset!




Now if I can just figure out how to get those tires on a Model T - I'd be able to squash every crawling bug and a few VW's in town!