Universal joint ball housing grease

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Universal joint ball housing grease
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 11:23 am:

I got my engine installed late last night and will be attaching the universal joint up to the rear of the engine. What type of grease is recommended for the ball housing the universal joint? I'd like to pack it with grease by hand before hooking it up. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Gelfer on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 11:27 am:

I use wheel bearing grease all around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 06:43 am:

Yes, it should be packed 80% full of non - moly wheel bearing grease. Read the label, use only grease that does not contain molybdenum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 07:41 am:

Thank you Royce. Very timely post. I bought a tub of moly wheel grease from the auto parts store yesterday but have not opened it yet. I will need to exchange it today for some without moly to pack the universal tonight. How is the regular, old fashioned, moly-less wheel grease described on the label?

Why is Molybdenum not recommended for use on Model T applications? I though it was an advancement in lubrication technology and I would have never thought that it should not be used to lubricate any bearing of the Model T. Thanks again. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 08:01 am:

Hi Jim, I use high temp water resistant wheel bearing grease on every thing, never a problem, reason why is I pressure clean under the T alot and a lot of plain grease's are clay based, can easily be contaminated with water as things are not so water tight on a T... Kerry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 11:15 am:

I use Marfak grease with my T. Main reason, that's what the fellow I got it from uses on his Model T's and swears by it. It does seem to be a little thicker and almost fibrous. I don't know how good it is or if it's any better than another type but he gave me a bucket that I need to use up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 11:23 am:

Has anybody come up with a boot to fit over the joint? By design, if it's getting enough lube, it's going to leak. What did they do in later Fords?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George P. Clipner on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 01:24 am:

I used to get CV Joint split boots for the beater, years ago. Like the boots for the VW , they had screws to close the split . You would would probably have to do a little cutting to enlarge the axle area of the boot, to fit the wider T drive shaft. Leaving out a few screws, would allow room to fit around grease cups.
George n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 07:26 am:

Non Moly grease is either brown or red. Moly grease is black. Usually the moly grease is described "for cars equipped with disc brakes". There is no reason in particular that disc brakes would have anything to do with moly.

Mobil 28 is a non - moly high / low temperature water resistant wheel bearing grease.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 08:07 am:

But why should moly be ruled out for use in Model T's for this application? Is it harmful? Does it contain some sort of particles that would be harmful to the magnets or magneto? Is it too thick? Why should we not use moly grease? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 08:18 am:

Disc brakes can get pretty danged hot, and you don't want the grease to go liquid. Discs are often integral with the hub and bearings, so heat transfer is a real consideration.

I want to know what's wrong with moly, too. I've always used it in modern ujoints.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 01:45 pm:

There's nothing wrong with Molybdenum Disulphide ("Moly"). It is a lubricant and is used as a dry film lubricant as well as in many greases. It does not conduct electricity. It is black in color.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 10:02 pm:

I was under the impression that moly type greases do indeed conduct electricity. That is why they should not be used on a T as the magneto could be shorted out if some was to find its way into the engine. Isn't molybdenum disulphide a metal? Maybe I'm confusing it with graphite. I am definately no expert, just relaying what I have read and been told for many years. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 10:15 pm:

Modern technology is fascinating...
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide
That article says it is a semi-conductor - similar to graphite.
Oh boy.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 11:08 pm:

I respect Royce and his opinion so today, I returned the moly grease to Advanced Auto Parts and exchanged it for a tub of Valvoline water resistant, general purpose grease for non-disc brake wheel bearings. Might as well stick with something I know is safe. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep nz on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 12:05 am:

Lithium is a metal too but it is probably ok to use


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 12:56 am:

I've switched to synthetic. The info on Molly caught me by surprise because that's what I use. I was told to use Molly because it "cllings" to surfaces better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 07:20 am:

I decided that packing the space inside the ball housing around the universal joint before hooking it to the tail shaft would be too messy so I decide to wait until after hooking it up to grease it.

I have the original large screw-on cup greaser on my universal joint ball housing. If one fully packs the grease cup, level with the rim, then screws it on until tight, to force the grease into the ball housing, how many times should one do this before there is sufficient grease (80%) inside the ball housing? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger K, southern Sweden on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 07:29 am:

Jim, if you thread the innards of the cup greaser for a zerk fitting you can fill it up fast & easy with your regular grease gun. You will notice when it's full - grease comes out. Then thread on the cup with a little grease in the threads to stop it from vibrating off & everything looks just like Henry made it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 07:48 am:

Thank you Roger, but I don't want to fill it all the way so that it oozes out the fitting and around the ball joint securement ring. I want to fill it 80% full with 20% space left over for the movement of the universal joint as Royce recommended. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger K, southern Sweden on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 07:57 am:

After a few miles it won't be 100% packed anymore, I would guess :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indy on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 08:18 am:

I like to see it ooze out. That way I know there is grease inside and the ball is getting needed lubricant also. I use a grease zerks in place of the grease cups for the drive shaft and u-joint. I can't recall seeing anything wear out from too much grease.

Jim to answer your question about how many times to fill a grease cup and screw it down to fill the cavity, I know this isn't a number but considerable amount of times comes to mind. It's probably too late, but I put the end of the grease hose into the ujoint area and pump it full. It's a little less messy. How are you going to know when it's 80% full?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen, Ham Lake, MN on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 08:26 am:

Gotta have some leakage or the ball joint won't get lubed. Don't ask how I know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 08:31 am:

I am going to do this same project today. I am going to liberally rub grease into the u joint on the bench, and before installing it on the driveshaft, wipe off the square end so that it is relatively clean for installing the pin. Once the pin is installed I just use the grease gun to load up the round housing from the front, spinning a jacked up rear wheel once and a while to see how full it really is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz Knoxville,TN on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:21 am:

Why is the ball to be filled with grease,the first time the it is driven all the grease is slung to the outside surface,is it to keep the oil from the engine from running into the rear end.?I have a Warford and grease the U-joint twice a year and don't have any problems.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harry A. Daw on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:26 am:

Have found that having enough lube there cuts down on the amount of oil that gets to the back brakes. Read it on this forum that it can help and I found that it does.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 10:46 am:

Is there a grease available that won't get diluted by engine oil?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:18 am:

When I pulled the rear wheels off my 19 wagon I found that there were no inner seals behind the outer bearings.
One side had oil all over the brakes and the other was dry. The grease had made it's own seal behind the bearing on the side that was dry and it had stopped the rear end oil from comming out.
I put updated inner seals on both sides, but it was interesting to see that a grease seal worked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:24 am:

Was it pure grease, Fred, or sludge?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:40 am:

You can avoid installing a zerk (in any of the cups) by installing a rubber tip on your gun, and holding it into the cup with a little pressure as you pump the grease.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George P. Clipner on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:01 am:

Ok, maybe I missed something here , over the years.
I've learned so much stuff here in over 13 years.
So why is moly grease bad ju-ju in a T ???
George n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 09:53 am:

Moly grease is fine. Come on guys, do you think your T is going to stop running because of the kind of lube you use. Only place lube is important is in a Ruckstell and that's only because it needs to flow.
In the old days many folks used stiff cup grease in a Ruckstell without problems. I wouldn't do, but many have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:59 am:

Before recommending grease with moybdenum, please read the following link:

www.answers.com/topic/molybdenum.

It does say that molybdenum is a tough metalic element that has magnetic properties and has uses in electronic circuitry. That alone would cause me concern in using grease containing molybdenum as some babbited fourth bearings are worn and might allow moly grease to find it's and or magnets.

I am no scientist, chemist, or metalurgist, so I can't be sure of this, but it causes me enough concern cause me to play it safe and not use moly grease in the universal joint ball housing, but I see no harm in using it on wheel bearings or in other locations far away from the engine.

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:30 pm:

Jim if you are concerned about ujoint lube working itself back into the crankcase, I suggest you seal the ball and use motor oil in place of lube. Any grease you use in that area has the potential to soften and travel. Chassis grease will not hold up to engine temperatures. It will smoke and leave deposits on the cylinders, etc.
BTW, how is that beautiful wife of yours doing? I just saw the picture of when you two were married. You lucky dog!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:38 pm:

No problem if some U joint grease gets into the transmission as long as it does not contain Molybdenum or Graphite. Those will stick to the magneto and they are magnetic, could cause a problem with the magneto output. I use wheelbearing grease in the Universal joint. You want grease thick enough to not work into either the transmission or the drive shaft tube but stay in the u joint. The thicker grease will also keep it quiet.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:49 pm:

She' doing great Richard. Only problem is, not only is she beautiful, she's a great cook that insists on cooking me gourmet meals every night and, if I'm not careful, I'm gonna outgrow my Marine uniform. LOL! Thanks for asking.

Jim "Lucky Dog" Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Von Nordheim on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:57 pm:

I have been using molly high temp. front wheel bearing grease in my 13 touring for years. I pack the u-joint full during assy. and pump in more before each tour. Same grease is used for wheel bearing ect. No problems to date. I also have been using synthetic (10-30) in the engine sence re-build for over 10 yrs. and have never had to adjust any bearings or tappets. Some think I am waisting my $$$$'s.....I call it "cheap insurance".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 06:29 pm:

Moly in lubricants is Molybdenum Disulphide, not the pure metal. There is considerable difference. Consider:
1. Aluminum, an excellent metallic conductor. Aluminum oxide is an excellent ceramic insulator. It is also an abrasive, finding use in sandpaper and other applications.
2. Mercury accumulating in the brain can cause mental problems. A silver mercury almagam fills holes in your teeth with no ill effects.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush, Portland Oregon on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 12:04 am:

I will have to look at what grease I put in my u-joint. But my experience is that the oil in my motor likes to migrates to the outside and once outside it goes to many places like the ground under the 4th main, off the corners of the pan, out the starter and out front seal and down the inside of the torque tube. Lest I forget, around the rings and out the valve cover. I think it trying to get away from all that blow by gas and carbon! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 09:32 pm:

If you are worried about too much of any grease getting by the clearance in the 4th main, into the engine, shouldn't you also be more worried about how much oil will get out of the the engine through the 4th main?
Just a thought.....


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