Tire Tube Stems

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Tire Tube Stems
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Jack - Trumbull, CT USA! on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 08:12 pm:

I tore two stems on the rear tires....I replaced the tubes....I tore two more.....the tubes keep spinning.......any thoughts on what I could do to avoid this?

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 08:17 pm:

What size tires do you have and what air pressure are you running?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable Kiama Australia on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 08:18 pm:

How much pressure are you running and what type of tires?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Jack - Trumbull, CT USA! on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 08:57 pm:

Universal 30 x 3 1/2 I replaced the first set of tubes with what the vendor calls Heavy Duty Tube. The first time I was convinced it was due to pressure so I found somewhere it recommends 60 psi, so that's what I had. The tires are really old.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 09:22 pm:

First thing is to check the condition of the rim, be sure the stem hole is free of sharp edge, same with the clincher rim, no sharp edges.

And with todays fat tapered rubber stems, be sure the valve stem can go all the way up, if not, open up the hole. A stem that won't seat all the way can cause trouble too.



The clincher tire bead should be firmly in the rim, when inflated, (60 - 65 psi) that tube should not move.

One fix is to use tire flaps, they place more rubber around the stem, and also protect the tube.

This old tire had old time flap in it, the modern thick flaps are endless and are great to prevent tube troubles.




Or, use the metal stem tube, then you can lock the stem to the felloe and rim....can't move at all then.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker - Sumter, SC on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 09:24 pm:

Don,

If you have a "lose lug" rim, one that does not have the lugs permanently attached/welded to the rim and you have it mounted on the wrong type of felloe (i.e. the part of the wheel the spokes go into) the rim can turn on the felloe and cut the valve stem causing flats.

Please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/92314.html for greater details about some of the various rims and felloes and the need to have a compatible rim and felloe. Especially note that the Firestone and Cleveland rims #2845C and #2845D that have a lug where the valve stem fits through the rim – need to be mounted on a felloe that has the female cup for the lug to fit into. That is what keeps that rim from rotating on the felloe and cutting the valve stem. I believe that would not be as much of a factor on a front wheel that did not have brakes – but on the rear wheel the braking and acceleration from the engine – it is a known cause for multiple flats.

One of the advantages of Model Ts is that many parts are interchangeable and will fit more than one year and more than one way etc. In many cases the parts fit and function great. A demountable wheel and rim will fit the earlier non-demountable cars and it makes it a lot easier to change the flat on a tour or if you drive the car a lot. In some cases the parts fit fine but the function is not acceptable such as installing the ring gear on the wrong side of the pinion gear. It fits fine but now you have two speeds in reverse and only one very slow speed forward. In that case it is not dangerous – and we gain a little more experience in correcting the problem we just created. But in other cases such as installing the front spring perches incorrectly it can lead to loss of control and a possible accident– even though you used Ford parts and they seemed to fit ok. In the case of the various demountable rims I have asked if it is safe to run the 30 x 3 1/2 “Is it Safe to use a Loose Lug Kelsey or Ford clincher rim on a Hayes Wheel Felloe?” and so far I have not gotten what I would say is a sound answer that it is or is not ok. Ford Clearly said it was NOT safe to mix and match the rims and felloes in the Jan 1924 Service Bulletin but I would like to gather additional information about that if others have known successes or failures using mixed rims and felloes. And please don’t mix them just to run a test – I would rather not risk losing any of you. But if someone has already been doing it (and I’m sure there have been some folks) I would like to document the results.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, November 24, 2010 - 11:42 am:

I have a full set of Hayes rims on my car, and the wheels are all the same too, but I have no idea who made them. I cleaned and sandblasted all the wheels before I painted them, and there were no visible markings on them. I have another old '25 pickup with a mixture of rims and wheels. I haven't noticed any problems with it either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, November 24, 2010 - 12:22 pm:

Dan's pictures tell the story as rubber stem tubes are cheaper than brass or are they??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable Kiama Australia on Wednesday, November 24, 2010 - 06:06 pm:

Don,
If you are using 60 PSI and the stems are tearing out then I think Hap is on the right track. The rim may be the problem and is moving on the Felloe. Can you show us a picture of the set up of your rims and wheels?

Was on a tour a few months ago and a guy in a Buick had exactly this problem. He was relying on the tapered flanges to take the driving/braking forces. The rims slipped on the felloes ripping out the valves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Jack - Trumbull, CT USA! on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 05:58 pm:

OK, I'd post a picture but I can't.

The Tube and Tire must be spinning on the rim.

The rim is NOT a split rim, it is a solid rim.

If I drill out the holes for the stems a bit bigger than the tube stem I assume they still spin I will still have the same issue.

What are these Flaps all about. I never had this issue before.

Thanks
Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker - Sumter, SC on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 06:43 pm:

Don,

If you send me the photos, I will tryto resize and post them for you. You can click on my name and my e-mail is the third line down.

By the way -- have you always had this problem -- or did you change something such as painting or powder coating the rims and then the problem developed?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Jack - Trumbull, CT USA! on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 07:38 pm:

Hap,

Thanks, I just sent the pictures.

I have not changed anything other than the tubes.

Thanks
Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker - Sumter, SC on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 08:24 pm:

Don,

Thanks. I checked and it was not in the inbox yet so I'll check again a little later.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 09:33 pm:

No pictures but are you using rubber stems or brass? If a rubber stem is cut or brakes would anyone notice before it goes flat and spins on the rim? As posted before,I do not think rubber stems are cheap! In the long run,i think they are more expensive? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker - Sumter, SC on Saturday, December 04, 2010 - 12:16 am:

Don,

I've checked again but did not see the photos in my e-mail inbox. I suspect something is not working correctly. I’ve sent you a Private Message via the forum.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Saturday, December 04, 2010 - 01:25 am:

I have a 2-cyl Buick with 33 x 4" tires. I had a flat so I pulled the tire off. This car uses lock rings, so it is not the same rim as the Model T. I did clean the rim up and painted it because it had some surface rust on it. I backed down the driveway and set the emergency brake only to shear the metal stem off of the tube. As long as the rim was rusty, and the tube rusted to it, I was fine, but when I "slicked" things up, both figuratively and literally by painting the rim, that is when the problem started. So bottom line is, my problem was due to the rim bring too smooth. I also don't pull on the emergency brake lever too hard when going in reverse because it sets the brake immediately (self-energizing in that direction). I do think proper tire pressure is important in trying to minimize the problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, December 04, 2010 - 04:24 am:

Don Jack, just a thought. Are you sure the bead is seated in the rim? I always go around the O.D. of the tire smacking it with a larege rubber hammer to seat the bead into the clincher. I use talc for a lubricant when mounting the tires and have never had a problem. I also sandblast the rim and make sure all of the rust is out of the clincher. If there is any rust in there it can prevent the bead from seating. Something is not right if you are having that much trouble. Hope this helps. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, December 04, 2010 - 02:31 pm:

I don't think there was any mention of the year of your car. I was wondering if you have wood felloes, and the rivets were loose on the felloe to the rim, that sure could cause a problem. I don't like these new tubes at all. I wish they could make them in the USA again. For the last few years, I've been cutting off the rubber stems even on new tubes, and installing original brass stems, like the one Dan posted. I have never had a problem with them.
Does anyone know if A&L actually got Schraeder to remake the wire wheel valve stems? They are perfect. I wish someone could get them to re-issue the T valve stems, caps and all. For now, we'll just have to be satisfied with originals. They are out there.


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