Anybody know about Pullmans?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Anybody know about Pullmans?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Laini on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 10:38 am:

Hi gang--

You were all so helpful about my "sinking the car in the lake" question last year, I thought I'd hit you up again for another story idea.

(I'm still shopping the first book around to agents. No bites yet!)

I realize Pullmans were a completely different animal, but I thought I'd see if anybody might know anything about them, or have suggestions for where I might get more info.

I have a 1916 Pullman coupe (see here for piccie-http://www.trombinoscar.com/veterans/pullman1601.html) and I want someone to put a hole in the brake line(s). They worked initially, so it would have to be a small hole that eventually leaked all the fluid. The couple in the car hit a hill and the car overturned at the bottom, badly injuring the woman. This is based on a true story, so I'm trying to keep it pretty authentic.

What say ye, experts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 11:19 am:

The first car with 4-wheel hydraulic brakes was Duesenberg in 1921. A brake problem in 1916 would have had to have been a mechanical problem of some kind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 11:28 am:

Welcome back, Laini. Hope you find a publisher soon.

The first US car with hydraulic brakes was the Duesenberg in 1921, I'm pretty sure. The Pullman at the link does not have front brakes, either, which were also a first for Duesenberg.

Due to the complexities of linkage for front brakes, they probably spurred the development of hydraulic brakes.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Laini on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 11:55 am:

Thanks Ricks!

Wow. That's interesting. Do you guys think there might be any kind of sabotage someone could have done on a Pullman to cause it to wreck on a hill? Supposedly the brakes failed, and it overturned.

This was a famous actress at the time, who was injured with her fiance, and a couple of the accounts I've read say that her brakes may have been tampered with. Looks like someone came up with a theory, didn't check their facts, and everyone else has been parroting that for years.
Fact checkers, people!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 12:07 pm:

Laini,

Since the brakes were mechanical, sabotage would be easily handled by sawing on the brake actuation rod to weaken it. One hard stab on the pedal and the weak point fails and away go the brakes.

As Ralph said, I also say welcome back

and Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Laini on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 12:14 pm:

Yay! Thanks Seth. And thanks for the welcome back. You guys are so fabulous.

So would they have been able to drive for a little way, and after awhile it wouldn't work? Or would the sabotage be instantaneous?

I don't want them to notice the sabotage right away, until they get to this big hill.

Happy Thanksgiving, y'all.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 12:33 pm:

I think Jim Cook Knows someone with a Pullman and i think one was at The Old Car Festival at The Henry Ford 2 years ago?? Didn't the woman driving a Baker eletric fail to yeild and run into a Pullman?? Search for Jim Cook to find a Pullman.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dodd in Adelaida Calif on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 12:33 pm:

Could be mechanical failure or a neglectful mechanic not putting a cotter pin in a link and the link comes apart? or some neferious person removing said cotter??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Bell on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 12:50 pm:

Laini,
Wayne Coffman of Tiffin Ohio owns the Pullman that Bud is talking about. Phone 419-447-5013 not before 10 or after 4 he plays cards after 4.
He knows a lot about old cars since he has several.
Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Laini on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 01:13 pm:

Thank Joe!

How wierd that I had some ancestors who lived around Tiffin. I was just there last year doing some genealogy. Coulda seen it for myself!

Shucks...

Bill-- It would definitely be someone nefarious. Rumor has it that Woodrow Wilson had the hots for this actress and took advantage of her (ie: rape). All this was most likely done by feds to cover up that fact.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 03:59 pm:

I would have made a clevis pin out of wood.
It could be installed quietly in the end of the brake linkage connecting to the brake pedal.and the brakes would work when pushe lightely but it would certainly break when the pedal was stepped on hard leaving the car with NO BRAKES!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 04:12 pm:

Wow. Nothing new under the sun. (Sorry about M. Monroe)
Easy to sabotage mechanical brakes. As Bill said, just pull a cotter pin out of a clevis pin. It will work its way out and fail suddenly. Maybe in the worst place. I, and two close friends got lucky. I went down to southern Califunny to help a friend bring home a Pierce Arrow he had bought. The car was very original mechanically with an old, bad paint and upholstery job. It had not been driven in years and not well serviced in decades, but we were going to drive it 400 miles up to northern Califunny. He decided to have the chassis lubed before the trip. The lube shop had a high pressure grease gun that when they forced grease into the brake equalizer bushings acted like a hydraulic ram and sheared the pin that kept the clevis arm on the end of the shaft. The arm hung on the end of the shaft for about 50 miles before falling off. Sudden brake failure. Thank heavens for a good hand brake. We removed the grease fitting (to allow the excess grease out). Pried the shaft and arm back into place. Wired through the pin's hole to keep it from falling off again. Kept going, took turns driving. I drove all the way up the Grapevine. What a fantastic trip.
Yes, you can sabotage mechanical brakes, sometimes accidentally.

It looks to me as if there are too many people not with enough family today. But have a wonderful day anyhow. Enjoy friendships here, and elsewhere.
And drive carefully, W2


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