I have a coupe but I REALLY want something that I can get more family in..anyway I found this 23 but the guy wants $2200 for it..obo..I know it would need a few more $1000 put into it here's a few pics I can get more pics if you guys would like....As it sits how much would you pay?
I AM NOW WHERE NEAR AN EXPERT BUT BASED ON YOUR PICTURES THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT MISSING. YOU PROBABLY ARE NOT GOING TO BRING HER BACK TO LIFE FOR JUST A COUPLE 1000'S
It depends how bad you want it, with that said I would offer 1200.00 and hope he counters with 1500.00. I think that would be fair, but it's up to you figure what you willing to pay. It is a porject, but can be restored.
Save up a few more bucks, maybe another 2000 and you can buy a running, driving, complete car. That is, IMHO, too much for what is there. You can almost always buy a restored car for far less than it cost to restore it.
If you decide it's to big a project, Please let me know,
I am interested ,probably around the price John mentioned,
I actually want a 26=27 touring for my father
and I to restore
Didn't Eric say it was a 23 Touring? The hogs head is not 26/27. More pictures would help.
Looks like a "Model T Haven" car. No wood in the body, etc. Does the engine turn over?
Re-wooding the body is a slow and sometimes frustrating & expensive project even for an experienced woodworker.
You could easily put 1,000 hours and $4,000 to $5,000 worth of parts & supplies into that car if you do absolutely all the work yourself.
In that case:
$5,000.00 your labor if you figure your time @ $5 per hour.
$4,000.00 -An optimistic figure for parts & supplies.
Equals: $11,200 total...
There are lots of really nice running, driving, cars out there for under $10K that you can drive and enjoy as soon as you transfer ownership. However, lots of us are in the hobby because we enjoy doing all the mechanical, body, & repair work.
If you just want to drive and enjoy something, buy a finished car, it will be less expensive in the long run.
If you do enjoy the restoration process and that is the "best" part of the hobby for you, I would still recommend finding something that is in way better shape to start with.
I'll get more pic's for all of us...I was making a list in my head of what it need's and yea as you know its a long list and I keep hearing a cash register adding it up and up...
I must disagree with most others on this car. If you were to price out the seperate parts shown, you would have more than the stated price. The body with top bows would cost at least $1,000.oo Good used front fenders close to $150.oo each. Motor $300.oo etc.. When working at any hobby,you should never figure cost for labor you do yourself. From what I can see of this car,it should become a nice looking and usable T for around $6,000.oo total. If you must hire most work done then forget it
I agree with the notion that it's probably worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,500. However, Stan makes a good point. You could just look for a running car to buy and spend less (both money adn time) than a project like this wuold end up costing. The decision really centers around what you want. Do you want a car to drive or is it more important to you to have a project that later when you drive it you can say, "I did this"?
It'll be fun either way. Just figure out what you want. In any event, GOOD LUCK and HAVE FUN!!!
"I've been rich and I've been poor, and believe me, Honey, rich is better." — Pearl Bailey
I've bought projects, and I've bought a running T that I could use right away, and for me the running car is better. I'm not talking a fully restored, pristine show car here, but a car that's in good running condition but may need some fixes, for under $10,000. Probably best is a car where a previous owner has taken the hit for the body work, but there are some mechanical things to fix. At $8506.34 I probably overpaid for my touring, which came with a top (not installed) and most of the top hardware. The car ran when I got it but needed some mechanical repairs that are mostly done. With time out for mechanical work, I have a car I can drive and enjoy. Meanwhile, since I'm plenty busy, my TT project is three years old and I haven't even looked into the engine yet.
Here's mine, as in my profile.
I started with less than the car you are looking at and this is what I have 12 years later.
I didn't even think about the wood in the body....lol..I could do most of the work but bearings and stuff like that...I don't know if its locked up etc..I waiting on pics and I'll post them asap..
This would be a good time of year to trade your coupe off for a Touring. I've found it's nigh on impossible to work on a project when I have a running one. The running one always gets attention first.
How many years do you want to spend in the garage, just to haul a few more, more or less appreciative people?
That's very true Rick...I met a guy when I was driving the coupe and stopped to get gas....It turned out he has a 27 Tudor that he got a 5yrs ago but has no idea how to drive ,start etc...I helped him get it running etc...but he still hasn't done anything with it...Every time I see him I want to ask if he would trade...."he has said how nice & that's me" about my coupe...
I really like yours William..
The engine and tranny are always an unknown without a known history, hearing them run, or some disassembly and inspection. Their condition may be surprisingly good or in need of complete rebuild. Will they need only a couple hundred or a few thousand bucks to be brought up to running condition?
There is enough there to make a good start on a project car. If you are handy with tools, you can restore it.
The big question is this: Do you want something to work on and finally have a restored car, or do you want one to drive soon? You might be able to come down on the price, but maybe not. You can find a good running and good looking T for possibly less that it would take to restore that one, but you won't get the satisfaction of having done it yourself. Some family members might even like to help you with the project and in so doing will whet their interest in keeping the hobby going.
Even when you get a "good" Model T, you will be surprised by the things that are wrong with it which will show up after you buy it.
Anyway, think about it and do what you think will best suit your wants and needs.
I bought one that was less than the one you are looking at, $1,400.00,. By the time I got done I have over $10k, and it looks pretty good for an amatuer person. It is not perfect but I like it the way it is. Fun to drive and got a lot of comments(good)about it. Unless you want a BBBIIIGGG job restoring it look for a completed car, and that is my story and I am going to stick to it. Good Luck and welcome to the Model "T"rs.
I would ask the owner a lot of questions such as has he heard it run, or when was the last time it did run. No water hoses says that it hasent run in a while. The radiator may or may not be good.
The rear end probably needs to be gone through.
Check the engine serial no. to see if its the 23 range.
Tires, tubes, and flaps if you want to use them would cost close to 800.00 to start with if you buy new ones. And thats just getting started.
Maybe 1500.00 but not much over for the price to buy it.
Its a good starter project IF the price is right.
This is a project and certainly not for the "bolt on a new part person". Anybody can do that. This is a restoration project. The engine is free and looks good. It belongs to one of my sons. He already has a touring and doesn't need another,hence it is for sale.
Is that the invisible one that Jeff has? LOL
Keep looking. That's not even a good parts car.
We started with a heck of a lot less when we built his 1920 touring. It would stack up to any original you can drag in. My advise would be leave it or buy it.Your choice. It hung in a buddy's basement for many years.
Here's a picture of my 1920 touring taken last spring w/body sitting on partially restored chassis. Not much to look at but I work on as money permits. Currently I am finishing up motor which is a big part of the cost and doing what I can myself. I already have well over 4K in the restoration (Shhh don't tell my wife) and have a ways to go. Resale not that important to me. It's about preserving some history and meeting some great people in this awesome hobby. IM(humble)O, Go for it.
John (Out here in "Ford Country")
Somewhere back in the early days of this whole Internet forum deal, I wrote a little piece about buying your first T. It went around and around and got published in a couple newsletters that I know of. I probably have a copy stashed on my old computer but not on this one, so I'll offer the same advice I did then, which will cost the same as it did then - free -- but in shorter form. I still think it is valid.
Buy a running, driving car. Take everybody for a ride as soon as you can get it running or get it home. Let your kids crawl all over it and play in it and don't worry about the paint or upholstery. Upgrade it as you have time and money. Find out if your wife and girlfriend like old cars and spending a day hanging out with other T wives. Meet some guys who think spending Saturday rebuilding a rear end or adjusting coils is more fun than football or fishing. Buy an extra engine. Rebuild it -- or maybe just take it apart and clean it up inside and put it back together -- over the winter and in the spring you'll have a good engine to swap in and you'll know a lot more about T's than you did before. Then do a differential the same way. Now you have a good runner and driver and an extra engine and rear end. Rebuild a front end and switch them out before the tour -- on and on and on. You'll find out pretty quick if the kids are interested -- you can get them interested if you teach them to drive it when they are big enough to push down a pedal and make it go. A three year old can push the pedals and steer, a six year old can drive around the pasture by herself. They will love it. When you paint it, teach them to wet sand and spray primer. You can fix the paint job after they grow up and if you are lucky they will want a T of their own. Your baby girl will be grown before you know it but if you do it right, she will want to use the T in her wedding. She'll want a speedster in high school and your wife will be willing to work a little overtime to buy a bigger compressor for the shop or will pick you up a set of nice, original tools for Christmas at the antique store. You'll know where your son is at night because he is working on his roadster in the garage with his friends. If you buy a project, you will have it scattered all over the garage until you and the wife and the kids are sick of it and it will take far longer to get it done than you ever thought possible. I had parts I bought 35 or 40 years ago that never got on a car that I restored, work and on the road and other projects kept the restoration from happening. I don't have kids of my own but the ones I raised all learned to drive my T's -- and everything else I drove or flew -- and we were always better friends because of it. They had little interest in the pile of tin stacked up at the ranch but they loved to take the T for a drive. My girls were about 10 when I got hooked up with them and are well in their 40's now. When I talk to them, they always ask if I'm still working on T's. The boy I helped raise has grown children of his own. They have been into cars since they were little kids, at least partly because he and I restored a truck while he was in high school and he got interested in mechanical things.
My little neighbor girls cried when I sold my 26 Roadster to a friend in Calgary. They asked me the other day if I was going to be able to take them Christmas caroling in a Model T this year. It's hard to take a project out caroling and they neither know or care how well it runs or what it looks like, just that it is fun to do.
Don't buy a project. Buy a runner, driver. You will have a better experience and after having a T for awhile you will know what you want. While you have one to drive and take to the tours and the meets you can have one in the garage to work on and restore for when the kids are all gone off on their own and you need -- or at least think you need -- a show quality paint job and a correct restoration.
Advice from an old man who has been doing this T thing since 1954.
I'm not trying to kill your sale, Unca Jack, just trying to give this new guy good advice.
That advice is worth a million dollars and two cents - $1,000,000.02!
If you send me your address I'll mail the $0.02 in a plain envelope.
All I need to do is find an old motor/transmission and rear end for the next steps.
Good advise Stan,but I started out from scratch,and that was 46 years ago. (just look how well I turned out!) I don't think Eric is a brand new newby.
Stan has made the case for getting a driver much better than I have. I'm not getting rid of the project(s), but I'm sure glad I bought a car that I can use, even if I have to fix a few things on it while doing so.
Yeah, you're right as usual, Unca Jack. I forgot about the part where he is going to sell his coupe and get a larger car.
As I noted, tho, this advice is a shortened version of the article I wrote years ago. I do think it's good advice for a newby. A pile of parts can be pretty overwhelming for anyone, especially someone who hasn't done a T before, or who probably doesn't have one setting in the yard to go look at and see just how that bracket fits or how this piece goes, etc. I can't tell you how many piles of parts and projects we have sold at estate sales in the last 30 years of auctions that were left from a guy that died who had taken a car all apart ten or twenty or thirty years ago with the intention of restoring it and life got in the way, the kids grew up and left home and he never got back to it.
A friend just bought a 26 or 7 roadster pickup that had been in a garage in pieces since the early 70's Good engine, overhauled but probably not professionally, Ruckstell, nice rust free body, lots of parts - many new in boxes; the guy had been going to do a show quality restoration, even taking the rivets out of the head light shells so he could get all the rust out from under the brackets. It overwhelmed him once he got it apart and he died before he could get it even half way back together. Tom bought it for far less than the cost of the Ruckstell. There are lots of those projects setting around, in pieces, filling up the garage or the back yard. I have a couple of them myself. Gotta get back to the shop and see if I can make some progress before I get too much older.
My Montana 500 car sat for over 30 years after its last race because Willie Cox took the engine out to check the center main and never got around to doing anything more with it. He'd borrowed a set of wire wheels for the race, gave those back a year or two later and it sat in a shed on a pretty decent set of wood wheels for 30+ years before I bought it, the bottoms of the wheels 4 or 5 inches in the dirt, not much good for anything now. Now it's set in my back yard for 5 or 6 years, waiting for me to get projects ahead enough to get to work on it. I'm as guilty as anyone. It will probably be in my estate auction. I'm working on a Barnyard Cruiser for next summer, have 20 or so carbs that need to get done, two Ruckstells and all of the usual day to day things that take up everybody's life. I don't know when I'll ever get back to the 500 car.
I started off right with a nice driver.
Now, I need a bigger garage.....
Of course, I've got 5 '50s and '60s Buicks and a '58 Chevy truck taking up space as well.
That's good advice above, and I wholeheartedly agree. Here is my experience:
I've had a '15 Touring Car for several years that I was able to drive from the time I acquired it. I've "been through it" a piece at a time to make it dependable and safe to drive, but it's still a driver. Kids can climb on it, etc., without worry on my part. I might restore it someday, but it is a bunch of fun the way it is.
I'm now restoring a '15 Coupelet, which is a several-year endeavor. It will be more on the level of a show car, but I will drive it some. One important factor is that I am able to take my time on the Coupelet and not feel rushed, because I have the Touring Car to drive to club tours and so forth while I am involved with the restoration. I don't think the process would be nearly as enjoyable if I were feeling rushed to get it finished so I would have a Model T to drive.
First let me say you have some very good advice posted here and second I am glad it was the "short" version.
Eric said he has a T already and if it is a driver he is ready for the next step. Parts can be found real easy for most T's as long as you have the money so I would look it over and decide if it is something I could do and how much it would take to get it running. If Jack has as many parts as I have heard he has maybe he would sell you most of what it needs just to make room in his parts house that he built not long ago that should be about full by now knowing him.
I would want to drop the oil pan cover and look at the babbit or just count on a total rebuild on the engine and make an offer. You can keep both T's till this one is on the road and then sell one if you decide to later but you will want to keep both. (don't ask how I know )
Just a thought.
It is a good idea to have at least one T that you can drive even if you only have one.
I remember that when we were restoring the 19 Dad had a 22 sedan that he was using.
But we also have to aware that it is important to bring back those that are "almost gone".
Enthusiasts have started with less.
It would be shame if the T pictured at the beginning of this post was allowed to rust away or scrapped because someone is greedy, etc.
Likewise the Ts that have been restored and are out in the elements with the cover collapsing is a shame.
We continue to loose Ts because of many reasons –
now I understand why people thanked me for bringing “another one back to life”
and wish I had the time (money) to put a second T together.
Maybe when I retire in about 10 years.
I don’t think 76 is too old!
Bob,thanks for the kind words,but Uncle Stan's post is good. This car is resorable,but it is a full blown project for a person who wants to experience bringing one back from the ground up. All my T's were done that way,and IMHO that's the only way. When you get done,you know exactly how everything is. The body is straight and it's missing only one fender and splash shields. Every thing else needed is in the catalog. I personally would cut out a wood kit,and get on with it,but that's just me. Don't look at the enormity of something ,but only the individual challenges. Over a period of time ,all will be done and a nice car will come from it. If you arn't up for the task,don't buy it. As for my barn,it's open for visiters almost every day,stop by.