I'm pretty sure this is for a 14-15 roadster but I'm not 100% sure. I'm fixing this up to give to Dex for his 14 roadster and want to make sure this is correct before getting to work on it because I have several other complete top sets but they are all different in various ways.
Also, does anyone have any pics of the hardware for this? I know there are supposed to be straps up front since there are no provisions for clamps.
I need pics because I'm sure somewhere amongst the rubble of my collection of parts there is a box of this stuff somewhere. If I knew what to look for then I'd be set.
Dex's roadster is a '15 if that makes any difference.
It is difficult to tell just by looking at the pictures if the top bows are for a Model T Ford or for one of the many other similar size roadsters from back then, i.e. Chevy, Metz, Saxon, etc.
And if you know it is a top supplied by Ford, it can sometimes be difficult to know what year it fits from looking at a picture.
Good news -- the 1915 to 1922 straight windshield runabouts (also called roadster by many of us as well as the straight windshield touring tops)will all fit and function appropriately on any 1915-1922 runabout (or the touring tops on the tourings).
A 1915 - 1917 or so would have what are called Oval top sockets/bows. As you look at the metal parts they are oval in shape and do NOT have a crease or four edges.
Starting "around" the 1918 model year (late 1917)the top bows were redesigned and now had a rectangular shape with actual bent edges running the length of the metal. Those are called rectangular cross section bows. See: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm#top and scroll down to “Tops” for details on what changed when.
Looking at your photos, "IF" they came on a Model T Ford originally, they are the rectangular top bows and would have come on a 1918 model year to 1922 model year runabout (also called roadster). They will fit fine on a 1915-1916 runabout.
Note the 1914 tops are slightly different from the 1915 and later ones.
The dimensions for the 1915-1922 roadster tops are shown in Murray Fahnestock’s diagram. It is the sixth posting down at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/21299.html . I think you will find that posting helpful also. It has questions about fitting the 1915 top. And also http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/23098.html which again address a 1915-1916 top.
Base on how plentiful Model T bows are compared to others you have a good chance that those are Model T 1918-1922 runabout/roadster top bows that will fit a 1915-1917 also.
I believe someone perhaps Phil Mino? had posted some actual dimensions for the top irons. If those are available that would also help you.
Hap l9l5 Model T Ford Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.
I have some photos but have not found them in my files yet. It looks like your top may have early sockets on one side and later on the other but it's hard to tell from the photos. The early tops ('15 Runabout) did not have any metal around the curved part of the bow.
They look like 1917 top sockets. Top sockets had an oval cross section up until that time. There could be some cross over but although they would fit, they are not for a 1915 car. Only Model T folks would know. You could try to trade them for the correct ones. A friend of mine purchased a 1916 Model T Touring and it had those rectangular sockets but folks knew that the top was from a 1917 and told him.
Why is it some people need to tell others what parts of their cars are incorrect?
"Your mother is ugly, and dresses you funny."
Pat wants to make sure the parts are correct for Dex's '15 roadster. This is probably why Pat is getting the answers he is.
In case your last post is addressed to me, Seth, here is what I replied to:
"A friend of mine purchased a 1916 Model T Touring and it had those rectangular sockets but folks knew that the top was from a 1917 and told him."
I don't think they came out with that style of top, until 1918. The '17s and earlier still had the earlier style top sockets.
The oval sockets were used through the end of the 1917 model year (August 1916 through July 1917).
The square sockets were introduced sometime in the 1918 model year (on or after August 1917).
To my non expert eye they look like the "One Man Top" irons from a 20's roadster. They look similar to the set in my car.
I have a friend with a 16 Touring with those rectangular sockets and the car was made in July. But, who knows what has happened over the years
On the 1922 Roadster the center bow is mounted to the pivot on the body, and the rear bow pivots from the center bow just above the body bracket. The top bow is removable and you take it from the top position to the lower one when the top is down. On the slant windshield T's 24-25 the rear bow is mounted to the pivot and the center bow pivots about half way up the rear bow. The front bow attaches to the center bow high on the bow and is moved down to the back bow at a lower point when the top is folded down. I don't know anything about the oval bows.
Hey thanks fella's, you got me feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.
You say you have multiple kits in various stages.
I have a '22 Touring (late '22 serial number).
I have NO top parts at all and am looking for an affordable set.
I understand the tops changed right around the date of my car, so any details I need to identify on my car to ensure I get the correct parts would be greatly appreciated!
Please PM me if you can help.
Thanks a bunch guys! I just wasn't sure bout this! If I can't find a set or trade this one for one then it looks like we may just use it anyway.
I also have some of those old front mount electric starter conversions like the ones Jay posted a while back for this year car, don't know if you want one of those Dex but I sure as heck aint using it lol!
Hap, you amaze me with the wealth of knowledge you have! As a matter of fact I do have some of those oval cross section irons, they are in pretty bad shape but I do belive I have some but they are a partial touring top so I'm sure they wont work. I might be able to swap someone for the parts.
Heck yeah, I might have one you can have for cheap I know I have a set from some sort of open touring car I just don't know what make. Looks like Ford maybe. Like a fool though I only picked up roadster stuff back when I was collecting parts so most of what I have is runabout/roadster stuff. I will PM you once I verify what I have.
You asked what hardware is used in the '15 Roadster top. This is a '15 Roadster and the top was put on about 1979. If I remember right, it was a Sorensen top. I don't think that company is in business anymore. I'm pretty sure Mr. Sorensen has passed away because he was kinda an old guy when I saw him in Kansas City at a tour back in the mid-1960's. Anyway, the front corners of the top get a "footmans loop" (as do the rear corners) to hook the top straps on. These are attached with wood screws to the steam bent 1-piece bows. Footmans loops are available from most suppliers. The rear corners have a web type strap that goes down to the top support bracket. At the bottom of the bracket is a circular loop on the support bracket. The bottom of the rear curtain has a strip that goes around the back and hides the tacks. It is held on with wood screws. Dad bought this top at a farm sale for $1.50 many years ago, so the sockets are original, but the bows are new. We had a heck of a time getting the top material on the car. It did not line up at all, in fact, we had to have the top part re-sewn just to get it to fit this good.
Ken Sorensen died many years ago. Too bad his son didn't carry on his Model T kits. Also he had a source for T top material that no one has ever been able to trace. We are now fortunate to be able to buy the correct top material made by Haartz, from Don Lang, and Macs. Kens kits were a lot better than some that are available today. Kens shop is still in business, run by the grandson, but they don't do antique cars any more. Too bad.
Those are invaluable photos....can anyone post the same shots for a late '22?
Here are a couple of pictures of our 22. I don't know whether it's early or late, but it has a low radiator and a steel firewall. These pictures are not close ups of the top, but very similarly made and attached to the 15 posted by Verne.
I should add to the photos of the '15 Top...I don't believe the front corner straps are correct for '15. I think the '15 had a cotton webbing that was dyed black. We do have some straps like that but after some time, they wore through and broke. Of course, the leather will do the same thing eventually. We did not have the luxury of having the quantity of repro Model T parts back at the time that top was installed, so we had to do with what we found that was close enough to work. The rear straps were Army surplus and we dyed them black. The top is getting to be about 30 years old now and the inside shows some discoloration. Larry, thanks for the update on the Sorenson family. We had a guy in Kansas City by the name of Bill Fessler that I bought some material from for the top on my Hucksters wagon (see profile). It was some nice stuff. I don't know if his shop is there yet or not, but I'd guess he has passed.
Awesome! Thanks so much Verne and all!
I actually might have most of this! The little loops for the straps and maybe a pair of those hooks
I suppose with these tops it's best to have the straps that tack to the bows a little bit short to compensate for stretch?
I believe you are right about keeping the straps a little tight. Everything has to work in concert with each other to get it to look and stretch right. Of course across the top of the top are the pads. Inside the pads are some heavy webing strips that hold the top bows in place across the top. The cotton webing style straps of the '15 and later tops may add a little better support as they may not stretch as much as leather plus, you can pretty much adjust them to what you want, where the leather has "eyes" for the tongue of the loop to go in.