Safty wire on flywheel bolts?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Safty wire on flywheel bolts?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul griesse granville,ohio on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 01:24 pm:

Just about done with my engine rebuild, but not installed yet----DAMN--just remembered I forgot to saftywire the 4 flywheel bolts. Really don`t want to remove the pan-I`m thinking I might let this go-------any horror stories out there about flywheel bolts actually coming out or loose, over time? Thanks, Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 01:39 pm:

Best do it. All the safty wires/cotter pins were there for a reason originally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By scott conger on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 01:57 pm:

Don't know how on earth he did it, but I recall a fellow showing how to build up the rear main thrust surface to reduce crankshaft slop. He did it through the inspection plate, and importantly, he had to cut safety wire and remove a flywheel bolt to get the cap off. Was in one of the National Magazines.

If the engine's out of the car, I'd just pull the pan and do a careful/thorough job of installing the safety wire. Check the Web to see how it's really supposed to be done...not necessarily how it was when you removed it...more often than not, safety wiring is done wrong.

scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 02:07 pm:

I can't think of any, but do you want to be the first? As Jack says...best to do it.

I know how you feel. I forgot to do mine too and had to remove the block and transmission from the pan so I could do it, but I'm a worry wart and couldn't have enjoyed my T imagining those bolts coming loose every time I drove it and what the consequenses would be. Chances are, they won't ever come loose, but longer odds have happened. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 03:25 pm:

They can loosen up while you drive and cause big problems. Looking at your profile, if that is the original pan, you have a 3 dip. It's extremely hard to wire it through a 4 dip. I don't know if possible through a 3 dip, but if the engine is still out, it would not be hard to remove the pan and wire it. Before doing so, you might take a look with a flashlight through the inspection hole, you might find that you forgot that you had already wired them, and save having to pull the crankcase.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 03:45 pm:

Just do it! remove the pan, suffer the pain of being forgetful, that way you will not ever forget again. BTDT. Suffered the pain myslef.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 03:54 pm:

It can be done through the three dip pan cover, BUT, I do NOT recommend it. The safety wire must be put in in directions to pull all bolts toward tightening the bolt. If the wire loops or pulls the wrong direction, it can actually cause the bolt to work loose. (This, I have seen!) It can be done through the cover, but is too likely to cause a problem as prevent one.
Do it right. It will be a story you tell and laugh about later.
Drive safe, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker - Sumter, SC on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 04:24 pm:

Paul,

Bottom line up front: Please put the safety wire in or disconnect the ignition and put a large sign on it that says "Caution: Do not run -- engine flywheel may come lose and flying parts may damage feet. Safety wire on the flywheel is NOT installed."

Rationale: Henry Ford put a lot of effort into saving money on his production. In one case he had a letter sent to an outside body supplier directing them to stop using 3 rivets on each side of a panel and instead to only use two rivets to hold the panels together. He also noted that the time and material savings was $0.00? i.e. very very small. But that he expected a reduced overall price for the future purchases of that style body. If the safety wire was NOT needed -- Ford would have discontinued it imediately to save money. In fact -- he continued to use the safety wire on the flywheel through the 1931 Model A Fords [ref "How to Restore Your Model A Vol 4" page 15]. I don't know when he started using a different method but for the Model A and Model T Fords he used the safety.

Devil's advocate: For some light airplane four cylinder engines the nuts were originally safety wired that held the crankcase together. Later on it was determined they did not have to be safety wired. But that was issued by the manufacture and was thoroughly tested and documented. Also, they continued to safety wire the nuts that held the propeller on. If you still want to test it on your car -- recommend installing some sort of "scatter shield" to protect your feet. The standard wood floor is not going to stop exploiding metal if that flywheel comes lose while you are speeding up in first or cruising in high.

And for any authors out there looking for another old car plot line: The young son decides to get rid of his aging grandfather by secretly removing the safety wire from the flywheel bolts on his grandfathers favorite daily driver....Or the inexperieced mechanic forgets to install the safety wire and .....

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout.
Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 06:11 pm:

When I took up the 3 main bearings with the engine in the car I had to take one of the flywheel bolts off to drop the 3rd main.
It's actually not that hard to remove and replace the tie wire with everything in the car; you just feed it in gradually and rotate the flywheel a quarter of a turn feeding it through the next bolt.
I expect it would be more difficult with 3 dip pans but as long as you can reach the bolt I don't see why it can't be done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Prince on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 01:03 am:

You only have to tie two at a time together to keep the bolts from backing out, make sure that you wrap them the correct way and it is not that hard thru a 4 dip pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 02:28 am:

When I purchased my '24 Coupe back in 1976 the flywheel/crankshaft connection was only by two bolts. I later found there should be four, but two were not visible as the gears were rotated 60 degrees.
The motor was this way unil I returned from the Baja 1000 trip to Mazatlan in 1989 when I rebuilt the motor. I don't remember if the two bolts were wired, but they didn't come loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 02:41 am:

My late friend tore down a T engine a few years ago and found a cotter pin neatly installed and crimped over in each bolt head on the flywheel. Don't know what they were thinking. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 05:38 am:

Damn...looks like you'll be pulling the engine. You pretty much do indeed need to wire them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - Lyons, GA on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 01:18 pm:

David,

THAT is funny! Sad, but FUNNY!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 04:22 am:

Hal, yep, I wish we had taken a picture, never thought about it at the time. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob trevan on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 05:16 am:

HI PAUL , DID THE SAME THING MYSELF ONCE WITH A 3 DIPPER SUMP.
I PUT THE CAR ON A 4 POST HOIST AND TOGETHER WITH A STROB LIGHT AND MIRROR I MANAGED TO FEED THE WIRE THROUGH TO DO TWO BOLTS --THEN TURNED THE ENGINE AND CONCENTRATED ON THE OTHER TWO .

CAN BE DONE -- JUST NEEDS PATIENCE.

BOB T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 06:46 am:

You know...if you took about a 2' by 1/4" diameter wooden dowel and sliced it maybe 1/2" down through the middle you could maybe use that to reach back there and work the wire through the bolts. Put the end of the wire through the slot with a couple inches sticking out???

Still it'd be best just to pull the egine or at least scoot it forward on the frame, remove the hogshead, unfasten it from the pan and just tilt it up to get back there.

Some of the holes wont line up and you'll have to wrap the wire counterclockwise around the head of the bolt to get to the next one. Be sure to pass the wire you wrap between the wire through the entry point and the flange and not on the other side of the wire. You don't want it flipping off the head somehow and creating slack. Beleive it or not someone did this to mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 06:55 am:



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