What is the best, shiniest, most durable body paint to use?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: What is the best, shiniest, most durable body paint to use?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 07:24 pm:

I have always been a fan of Dupont's Imron epoxy paint, but it is very hard to get, if you can even get it at all and if you can, it's not the paint it used to be, formula wise, due to Government meddling.

For those of you who have recently painted a Model T, or any car for that matter, what have you found is the shiniest, best looking, most durable, easiest to apply professional quality paint you have used? I need something equivalent to gloss black epoxy Imron, but it doesn't have to be a 2 part epoxy if it has all the qualities I listed above. Thank you. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lloyd M. Sumerall - Athens, AL on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 07:32 pm:

I had my T repainted last winter. I asked the body man for the shiniest paint he knew of. He painted it in Dupont Chroma Base which is base coat/clear coat. I love how it looks. Like a mirror. I will have to say that there is a lot more to getting that finish than just paint. The preparation of the body and the skill of the painter are very important.

MIKE - AL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 07:40 pm:

PPG Concept is all I use anymore when it comes to painting cars. I've shot 80 or so cars with it over the past few years and have been very pleased with it. You can do it single stage or base clear. I prefer Concept black #9700. It's pretty dark.

I've sprayed my fair share of Imron, back in my days of running the paint dept. for a fabrication shop. You're right on the quality of Imron not being as good as it was.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 07:52 pm:

DuPont Centari 99A acrylic enamel , mix it with the gloss hardener/activator for fast hard drying and long lasting shine.....the best IMHO



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDaniel(Indiana Trucks)Star City In on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 09:59 pm:

PPG Concept base/clear is all I have used for 25 years. It costs way more than it should but I just never found anything better. The Omni line is also PPG but not as good so beware if some one says it is good. Trust me, I have tried cheeper and it sucks. Another thing with PPG base coats, they had two types that used different reducers. I always used one that used a reducer that started with DRR something. You don't want that kind of base because the REDUCER has a short shelf life. The kind I used on my Indiana Truck was if I remember right DBC base coat which used the same reducer as the clear, DT 860 or DT 870. Wet sand with 2000 and buff it to a glass like finish.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 12:59 am:

I shot a few cars with Centari years ago, then switched to PPG when their local dealer did a program for one of our Early V-8 Ford Club meetings. Centari always seemed like it was hard to tell when to quit painting. I would either get not enough or too much paint. The PPG didn't seem to have that problem. I sure can't complain about the gloss and depth of the PPG.

The right rear fender on this '33 had to be repainted when I backed the car out of the trailer and met up with a tree. Dad about disowned me that day (his car). He cut the tree down after that happened. One of his friends said, "why did you cut the tree down, it wasn't its fault?"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 01:59 am:

I'll go along with Dan. I like the 99A Centari. You can sand it, and rub it out just like lacquer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Smith on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 04:44 pm:

Jim,I've always been a Centari person.I've been a bodyman for 30+ years and have used the older,1980 Imron and yes it was great paint.The main problem is the chemical make up,it requires a fresh air suit.On my AUTOWA bodied roadster I used the for- mentioned PPG Concept on my chassis and disc wheels and will be using it on the body.It does sand and buff a little nicer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 05:19 pm:

James, did you not read the rules??
You can not say, "AUTOWA bodied roadster" without posting a picture of it.
I thought they were all touring and closed cars.!?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen-Central Minnesota on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 05:45 pm:

I've used PPG Omni for under hoods and inside of wheel wells, etc. and Concept base/clear with great results. But, I feel that base/clear is overkill for Model Ts. So, after painting a dozen or so commercial trucks at work with Dupont Chroma-One, I switched to that for my Model T projects. It shines just fine. It's plenty good for an amateur painter like me.

t


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Smith on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 08:14 pm:

Sorry Aaron,I haven't learned how to post photos yet!There are pic's on the forum of mine when I bought it and some Dan Treace posted.Type in AUTOWA in the search box and look through the early threads.I forgot to mention I'm using single stage PPG Concept.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 10:29 pm:

I used Jones Blair alkyd primer with Jones Blair chemical resistant urethane acryllic enamel with matching clearcoat. I work for Halliburton and this is what we paint our equipment and vehicles with.
Sometimes they throw away old gallons of paint that has settled or been partially used so over the years I picked it up and have 10 or more gallons of each now. All I had to to is bring it to Lowes to be shaken on the machine and it'd become fluid again.
Red, black, grey, yellow, white, and clear as well as the alkyd primer and hardeners for each. Seems to be really good stuff actually and claims to be acid proof.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable Kiama Australia on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 04:20 am:

Patrick, I don't have personal experience with the brand of paint you mentioned but Acrylic Urethane Enamels have a fairly short shelf life ( around 2 years usually or less) Probably why your company throws it out to avoid problems.

If you are going to paint anything important do a test panel with the mixed material before you attack the actual job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 07:47 am:

In my opinion, a base coat plus clear coat system is going to produce the shiniest as-sprayed paint job.

But, I don't think it looks right on antique cars - street rods, yes, antique cars, no.

I'm a fan of PPG's Omni single-stage (no clearcoat) acrylic urethane system which can be clearcoated if preferred. Omni is also available in acrylic enamel and I have no experience with it.

Regarding durability, it's my opinion that paint durability depends mostly on how the substrate was prepared before painting and how the car is treated after it is painted.

In other words, when I hear people talk here about their Rust-Oleum painted cars that are holding up well, I know that they are because of the care they are giving the finish.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 10:57 am:

Ive used Omni single stage black as a standard paint, looks fine and holds up well if prepped right, it does have a slight brown tint to it when compared to other blacks under bright light.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 11:26 am:

Just read the post by Jim Smith on his AUTOWA roadster. So had to post one pic he sent me.

We have been trading phone info on ours cars, helps during the mutual restroations..... fun!



He just got his upholstery kit for the seats, I sent my original patterns to Elizabeth at Classtique Upholstery, and she made me the whole interior, door panels, and everything to finish the inside. Nice work. While at it, she used my patterns and Jim's supplied measurements to make for him his kit....share and share alike I say :-)

Oh, forgot to mention, I asked Elizabeth for 100 feet of hidem welt to finish all the borders (4 doors you know on my touring Autowa T body !) and who do you guess makes that for her? Our own forum member, Larry 'Original' Smith....thanks sir, nice work.

So, if anyone runs across an AUTOWA body for their T and wants upholstery, just call Classtique, the patterns are on file :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 12:13 pm:

What can I say? I get so mad at the average reproduction guys, because they don't make stuff like Ford did. I hunted all over for the binding that goes around the doors, and the front and rear bows on the early cars. It is not available. It is now. I had it made as Dan mentioned. It is available from Langs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable Kiama Australia on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 03:30 am:

Seth, don't like to sound negative but a solid black finish will be a better finish than one with a clear coat over it.

I used to always get students who wanted to get the best possible black on their car, whether it was a hot rod, modern or whatever and thought the way to go was to black and then clear.

I had them do test panels both ways and let them pick the finish they thought best. They always chose to give the clear a miss. It dulls off the gloss you get from a normal black off the gun or when buffed or polished.

What determines the performance of a paint is what conditions it is subject to. Obviously if you prepare poorly the color will be effected but whatever the end result of the repaint the weather especially the sun will be what destroys the paint.

Solid color is more durable than the clear because of the pigment that is added. You will see far more clear finished jobs fail as it is subject to the UV rays penetrating it which really attacks it. The base coat under it is also inferior to the clear (it has no hardener and is softer than the clear which makes it more liable to be chipped or damaged than a hard through paint.

The clear is the same as the solid color as a finish so its the actual preparation and application skill of the painter that will determine the end result. Spray them the same the gloss level will be equal polish them flat you end up with the same result.

There are more reasons but if one goes for clear instead of solid color they will leave themselves open to more possible problems than they will with just normal black color.

If I have confused anyone please post any questions and I can explain further if need be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Butterworth on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 07:12 am:

I have used Industrial Imron for over 20 years on my cars , it is cheaper than car paint and a lot tougher with the same shine .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 07:49 am:

@ Peter Kable
I maybe have misspoken and that may not be it. We use it for our fleet vehicles and marine units as well and it seems to hold up in all environments. It can be left as a topcoat or a clearcoat can be applied over it. Not sure what kind of paint that would be?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 09:57 am:

I agree Peter. It seems like the clearcoat that was applied to protect the underlying finish, actually contributes to the early failure of the paint job. I have seen clear coated finished fail before their time when the clearcoat fogs up, alligators and begins to flake off, destroying the entire paint job. Under the area that has flaked off, remains the beautiful paint that was underneath. had the clearcoat not been applied, the paint job would still look great. I would never use clearcoat. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable Kiama Australia on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 07:44 pm:

Patrick, Sorry should have been a bit more careful in my answer.

"Shelf life" is how long it lasts from when it was made then stored and sold to actually used. If you buy fresh from the supplier and use it there is usually no problem but you run a risk if the paint has been around for a while before you finally decide to mix it up and use it. It goes off in the tin if its too old and will turn into a jelly eventually and may be heading that way or it will go gritty and your finish will have a sandy finish.

Mix up fresh product and yes its got the best protective qualitys you would want its hard and lasts years some are guarenteed for 10-20 years by the companys.

Tom, I have Imron on my Town Car guards its been on for 36 years, Imron is polyurethane the toughest paint you can use ( same as used on aircraft) When I put it on my car the modern urethanes used on cars were not available. They are not quite as strong (hard) but you can get any color and it is easier to rub and buff if you need to work the surface.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 10:48 am:

I have found out that it is not so much the paint you use, its how you finish it off. There is polishing system that takes the place of rubbing compound. If you follow all the procedures you can use almost any enamel with a hardener in it. It will give the look of a base coat clear coat finish. The name of this miracle product is System One. The basic kit is about $60.00. I used this kit three years ago on my 51 Merc. This finish looks better than a base coat clear coat that I used on my 20.
http://www.detailinggurus.com/system-one-pro-kit.html


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