Need help installing a Stewart 160 speedometer on a '26 coupe

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Need help installing a Stewart 160 speedometer on a '26 coupe
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 01:00 pm:

In another thread, I mentioned that I have two complete speedometer setups, that are correct for a the improved 1926 Model T with the cowl mounted gas tank. The larger Stewart 160 and the smaller Stewart 490. After much contemplation, I have decided to put the larger, more elaborate Stewart 160 on my Coupe.

One problem Stewart was faced with on the new 1926 style Model T's was that the gas tank was relocated under the cowl which posed a problem, because the gas tank substantially decreased the room behind the dash, where the speedometer would be located. Stewart accomodated this change by designing the smaller 490, that didn't need as much room and, for the larger 160, they designed a special adapter, that allowed the speedometer to be mounted lower on the dash, where as, the bottom of the speedometer, actually protruded below the bottom of the dash in order for the cable to clear tha cowl tank. As you can see in the pictures, my speedometer has this special adapter. This set also has the bright nickel plated cover escutcheon plate, which frames in the speedometer and covers the trip set knob gearbox. It is shown in the second to last picture, but will not be used.

Today, I hope to cut a hole in my dash, to install the Stewart 160 and I can not afford to make a mistake, either on the location, or the hole. Has anyone here, ever installed one of these on a '26 with a cowl gas tank? Would there be enough room behind the dash between the choke knob and the instrument panel with the new adapter (closer to the driver) or would it need to be mounted to the right of the choke knob? I would prefer to have it closer to the driver, but the most important thing is for it to fit properly. Does anyone have a template that they can post showing the dimensions of the hole I need to cut? Looking at tha speedometer from the front, there is a bulge at the right of the speedometer for gearbox of the trip reset knob that must be accounted for.

I have posted several pictures of the speedometer set with adapter, original instructions and my dash. Any help or advice would be much appreciated as there can be no second chances on something like this. Thank you. Jim Patrick

PS. Several members have e-mailed me expressing a desire for whatever set I have left over after I decide, so I will be selling the Stewart 490 set, oomplete, with original instructions on ebay, since my '26 Fordor has a speedometer and I will not be needing it. The 490 is shown in the last picture. I don't know its' history, but judging by its' new looking appearance, I would say that it appears to have never been used.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 03:42 pm:

Moving this back up to the top, hoping there's someone who has installed this and can offer me some help and advice. Anyone? It's almost 3:00 and I'm losing daylight, so I'm gonna have to schedule this for tomorrow. If I don't get any response, I'm gonna have to wing it. Either way, it's gonna get done this weekend. Wish me luck. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM WILSON, AMORY, MS on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 04:31 pm:

I would call Russ Furstnow (928) 526-1343. He has been a big help to me re speedeometer repair and installation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 06:08 pm:

Jim - the 160 set-up didn't use that flat mounting plate on the '26-'27 models, I don't believe. The correct plate has more depth (to prevent interference with the gas tank) and is slightly angled upward.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 06:10 pm:

I made a template of the adapter by tracing around it onto a piece of cardboard. After trying different places, it looks like the only place it will fit is to the right of the choke knob as the area between the choke knob and the instrument panel is too small to accomodate the adapter. Tomorrow, I will cut the area out of the dash, using a dremel tool and a grinding disc. It doesn't look like it in the picture, but the two bottom corners to each side of the bulge will be flush with the bottom of the dash. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Alexander on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 07:03 pm:

Only thing I would suggest is to tape over the area you are going to cut, leaving plenty of excess tape on both sides and the top. I'd use 2 layers of blue "painters tape." You can outline your cut on the tape. The tape keeps the cutting blade from tearing the paint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 07:15 pm:

Jim Patrick: I am going to borrow your saying that is in the lower right side of your windsheild. I may add a word or two , and hopefully you dont mind.

bill d


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, CO on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 07:42 pm:

Jim:

the plate you have for your 160 is for earlier (25 and back) heads. I will try and post a picture of the correct plate for a 26. Steve Tomaso is correct the 26/27 plate is much smaller and does not hang below the dash. It is also deeper and tilts the head back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, CO on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 08:28 pm:

Jim:

the plate you have for your 160 is for earlier (25 and back). I will try and post a picture of the correct plate for a 26. Steve Tomaso is correct the 26/27 plate ismuch smaller and does not hang below the dash. It is also deeper and tilts the head back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM WILSON, AMORY, MS on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 08:32 pm:

This is the speedmeter installation on my 26 T Roadster. Plenty of room behind for the cable. Mine is a bit too close to the carb adjust knob. I have the choke adjustment set such that I have about 3/4 turn of mixture adjustment. Otherwise, it barely clips the mounting plate at the trip knob.

spo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 08:40 pm:

I agree with Steve and Dave. That is the wrong plate for a 26. I canít find my copy of Russ's book right this moment but I have a 26 Coupe with the correct set up that I purchased from Russ. It does not protrude below the dash.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, CO on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 09:48 pm:

Jim Patrick:

Nice looking coupe, and nice looking clock on the dash. Below is the correct dash bracket for a 1926/27 Stewart 160 speedometer head. I hope I can post the picture.

A753


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, CO on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 09:59 pm:

Jim Patrick:

I meant to say that the correct bracket is on the right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, CO on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 10:15 pm:

Jim Patrick:

I hate to tell you this but the 160 head you have is not a 1926 it is an earlier one and does not fit the 26 bracet very well. the Knob on the right of thehead is too large for the above bracket. I will try and show you the correct 1926/27 head. the head that you have will fit the bracket you have OK. Please see the correct head on the right below (if the picture works)

754


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, CO on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 10:17 pm:

I will try the picture again of the correct 26 Head. Its on the right.

A754


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.Woods on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 02:25 am:

Jim, If you have all the correct pieces, in good working order, for the Model 490, why in the world would you choose to use a Model 160 over a 490, which is more correct? If I were you and had your choice, I'd go 490 in a heartbeat.

As it is, I had to make a simular choice for my 26 Fordor, except my choice was between a Model 160 and an AC speedometer. I'm using the AC because it is a direct drive and doesn't require a speedometer swivel or gear reduction unit. My Model 160 may go in my grandfather's 27 coupe which won't get driven as much as my 26 Fordor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 09:38 am:

Terry. While the 490, with its' smaller size, was introduced in 1926 for the 1926 cowl tank dash, I just think, between the two, the 160 with its larger size, bright nickel plating trip feature and colored numbers to remind the driver when to lube various point of lubrication on the car (see above chart that came with the speedometer), looks better. Also, I was told, and thought I saw it in Bruce's book, that both the 160 and 490 are correct for the 1926. While the 160 was a 1925 model, my adapter was one of two adapters introduced, so the 160 could be used on the newly designed 1926 improved model with the cowl tank )the other was the angled adapter), otherwise, why would there be any need to design special adapters, that either angles the speddometer cable connector down, or lowers the speedometer below the bottom of the dash, if not to enable the cable to clear the cowl tank that was introduced in 1926? Jim Wilson's picture of his Roadster dash seems to show it can be done, but when I checked behind the dash on my coupe, which has a different dash than a roadster, I determined there definitely is not enough room back there for a speedometer, proportionally centered in the dash like I would want. The speedometer on my original Fordor has the rightmost plate featured in Dave Huson's Dec, 11 9:48, post and Jim Wilson's picture, but my '26 Fordor does not have the cowl tank. Thank you all for your input. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.Woods on Sunday, December 12, 2010 - 07:23 pm:

I have a Nov. 1925 issue of Ford Dealer and Owner magazine, and an April and May issue of Ford Dealer and Service magazine with ads from Stewart-Warner on the Model 160 and the Model 490. I will attempt to scan and post the ads. Both tend to point to what Dave Huson said about the mounting brackets. The oval, angled one appears to be marketed at 26-27 use. However, if one is not concerned with "being totally correct", I guess the earlier bracket could be used. It seems somewhere that I read that the Model 490 was not introdced in time for the 1926 car introduction; that it came later, some months after the first 1926's were sold. Because of that, S.W. furnished the oval, angled plate with speedos going in post 1925 cars. Then when the Model 490 was introduced, marketing effort was put on them. Maybe Russ Furstnow will chime in on this thread. If anyone is the expert, he is.


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