Just got my social security statement for 2011 and the good news is that the cost of living did NOT go up in 2010 just like 2009. So even though we didn't get a raise, we can still keep on buying those T parts as our paycheck buys just as much now as it did in 2008. BUY, BUY, BUY!
Where can you get that Democratic weed.
I'm thinking that there's just a slight chance that this particular thread just could turn into some sort of political discussion.
Let me try to avoid such a "political discussion" and just "cut to the chase" so that we can just continue discussing Model T Ford topics:
Several hundred "do nothings" in Washington D.C. who have no worry about ever having any kind of medical expense for themselves or their families, just vote themselves a raise every year, and the rest of us 300 million who's incomes are "frozen" just PUT UP WITH IT!!!
I guess maybe there must be something wrong with the system!!!
It's the Golden Rule.
He who has the gold;
makes the rules.
Harold, I agree with you but..........people must like it that way, they keep voting for it to stay that way.
They like it that a one term congress person can retire for full pay and get free medical service that is better than for the rest of the people.
They love working like horses and giving their money to those scoundrals to send to foreign countries that would lke to eliminate us all.
This not being political, it is just stating the facts.
Well Aaron, at least we know that you and I don't like it that way, and I'm pretty sure that there a lot of others on this forum that share our views, but as you say, a lot of people must like it that way, and, that's why I said, "we" (as a nation) put up with it!!!
One of the things I strongly believe in is "term limits" and the other is the "line item VETO". But obviously, most people don't like that either!
Hey, enough of this! This sort of talk was what I was trying to avoid with my simplistic and somewhat childish "cut to the chase" summation!
Ralph - I think you "summed it up" better than I did,.....and you're right!
Chuck -- I'm eagerly waiting for my first SS check in January when I turn 66 - the same day but not year as Elvis.
OK it will be direct deposit but I will be getting some of my money back from my Uncle Sam!
This is not a "political discussion" but I agree with Harold and Aaron.
Broken system and unequal benefits.
Isn't there a law against that?
Yeah, there are laws against that, but then consider who makes the laws and it just reverts right back to Ralphs Golden Rule!
I don't have any gold or silver but --
Can I please make some rules -- please --- please -- please!
I guess I'm not part of this world!
The only place in this whole world that I have ever felt I belonged, in my whole life, has been the antique automobile hobby.
"The question that always makes me hazy, am I, or the other ones, crazy?" Albert Einstein
Drive safe, W2
Ever wonder what it would have been like if Henry did in fact run and win the presidency?
If Henry had been President?........
We would be more self sufficient with strong domestic manufacturing and not buying and borrowing from China.
Organized labor would have seen a different path.
The Middle East would be very different.
We would be spending more on energy and food research.
The Presidential limousine would be a Model T !!!!!
I don't want to sensationalize the subject matter or debate whether it was right or wrong, but when the Confederate States during the American Civil War drew up it's constitution, (which is basically an amended US Constitution), articles expressly provided for an elected president for a single 6 year term, (at a time when the US President could serve a four year term over and over until he died as long as he continued to be elected), granted that president the "line item veto" power, and mandated that every bill that would effect law could only deal with a single subject which had to be stated in the bill's title. (no Christmas Tree expenditures).
Congress had the power to levy taxes, provide for common defense, and carry on the government. (No "provide for the general Welfare" clause).
It also forbade any monetary appropriations for internal improvements favoring "special interest" groups, and if any money were such appropriated, said special interest must pay for the improvement and not the general public.
The rest of the document.....well, you can read that for yourself....
Please be thankful that you have SS. I know people who aren't yet on it who are unemployed, or have to take a cut in salary, or take furlow days etc.
Those who have their own businesses have sold less and some forced to close.
Don't think of SS as a government subsidy. We all were forced to pay for it from our first job until retirement. It truly is a right and an entitlement.
Chances are when I go to retire (I'm 32) SS won't be there, even after paying into it since I was 14.
Who knows anymore!
What a lot people don't realize is that most of us live long enough to use up all we've ever paid into SS. After that, we're just more of the welfare bums we like to gripe about.
When Tommy the blimp pilot retired from Goodyear, the average lifespan of their retirees was 23 months. They even had it timed so close his gold watch quit after 23 months.
I never thought of it quite like you put it, Steve, but basically, you're right. Lots of folks think of SS as a pension. It is not. It's a tax and benefit system.
By the way, I received the same SS notice. No raise.
My pension plan is simple - I'll work til I drop dead. Never mind RRSP's (which the govt will find a way to get back) or govt pensions (which will be gone by then) or pvt pensions (personal petty cash funds for wealthy CEO's).
I believe in public healthcare, but not pensions.
In Canada, a member of parliament who has served more than 1 term (4 years)receives a pension of more than 64000$ per year. Tax free. Thieves.
There has been inflation, it is just not reported (easy to play with numbers when doing stats). And incomes have gone down, currencies have suffered, and the poor have gotten poorer.
The good news - media reports more on those who have gotten rich at our expense, and they cannot run and hide like they once did. The Madoff types can ----off. No sympathy when they start suiciding themselves.
I believe in "It's a Wonderful Life". The premise is correct, and society goes in trends regards applying such values more vigorously or not.
I received the same notice with a note attached saying my SS benefit would be adjusted down $1. for every $2. earned at my job...based on my employers W-2??? Hello SS remember I'm RETIRED!
All that means is that if you choose to work, you're in a 50% tax bracket from the get-go - right?
John, I think all of us who have not reached "full retirement age" get that notice. It should go away once you reach the magic age (66 for me). After that, no penalty for working.
Incidentally, I had a fun experience when I filed for SS this past June. I entered all my data on-line, then they called me to verify everything. The lady who called, as she went through all the things on her list, commented to me that although I would receive a little less per month due to retiring before age 66, I would get more over my lifetime due to the years between now and achieving that age. I responded by saying she is fortunate to have more information than I. When I tried to run out that calculation I couldn't come to an actual result without my date of death. There was a long silence. She finally said, "No one has ever said that to me before", then laughed really hard.
Just for clarity to those of you not quite there yet:
For most of us, the $1 penalty for every $2 earned does not apply to all money earned. It applies to all money earned over $14,160 per year ($1,180/month). Then, the limit increases to $37,680 during the year in which you turn 66 and the peanlaty is reduced to $1 for every $3 in excess of the limit. After age 66, it goes away altogether.
If you're approaching retirement, or "semi-retirement" like me, be sure to do your homework on this before putting anything in motion.
SS is the world's largest ponzi scheme.
The SS administration actually has a web site to deny it, but if you are younger than about 50 years old, it is clearly a ponzi scheme. With the current politicians spending off all the extra money being collected, paying out huge extra amounts to current retired persons, and not saving a dime of it, even though current payees are paying 2 or 3 times what they should pay.
Now that amnesty for illegal’s has passed the house, and just has to pass in the senate, illegal’s will get free health care, free college tuition, and social security benefits without ever paying anything in. So there will be a bigger burden on the SS system. Gotta love them Democrats....
Boy, what I could have done with all the money I paid into Social Security from the age of 16 until now. That is 41 years (I,m 57). I think I'd be a lot better off had I been able to invest it myself instead of giving it to the government to give to some government employee who makes more than I do to do less. Jim Patrick
Well boys, I will barely make $14K this year. I've had to change jobs twice in the last 14 months, and I am no better at the job I hold now than the previous one. I've put over $800 this year alone into SS and I will probably never see a dime of it.
AMERICA OUTRAGED! - DREAM ACT REWARDS
ILLEGAL ALIEN MURDERERS WITH AMNESTY
THE SENATE GOP NEEDS TO FILIBUSTER THE AMNESTY VOTE
House Democrats and RINOs on Wednesday passed legislation allowing illegal alien students to remain permanently and legally in the United States.
The Dept. of Labor reported that unemployment in America jumped up to 9.8%.
68% of legal working Americans are against AMNESTY and the Ousted Lame Duck Dems and RINOs in the House voted to give AMNESTY to ILLEGALS.
The Professional Left is pulling out all the stops to help Harry Reid and Barack Obama ram Amnesty for millions of illegal aliens down our throats before the Christmas holiday.
Pro-Amnesty organizations like the National Council of LaRaza are pouring massive amounts of money and resources into last-ditch operations with only one goal in mind... to overturn the will of the American people and force Harry Reid's so-called DREAM Act into law.
And IT'S WORKING. Radical leftists (with the help of eight turncoat Republicans) just shoved a version of the DREAM Act (as an amendment to an unrelated bill) through the House of Representatives.
Laura Vazquez, the Immigration Legislative Analyst for LaRaza, one of the largest and most heavily-funded pro-Amnesty lobbies in Washington, summed up the situation in an email to her group’s supporters: "We want to update you on what happened with the ‘DREAM Act’ in both the House of Representatives and Senate this week. Thanks to the thousands of calls you made...the House passed the bill late Wednesday night by a vote of 216–198. We also thank House leadership and the Obama administration for their support in getting to a successful vote, and the eight courageous Republicans who decided to do what was right by voting for the “DREAM Act.” [Emphasis Ours]
And within a matter of hours after the late-night vote in the House, Harry Reid moved forward with a procedural sleight-of-hand to keep the DREAM Act alive in the Senate, setting it up for a final vote as early as THIS WEEK.
Where do La Raza and the like get their money? Not from poor illegal aliens and their families. It's coming from the likes of the US Chamber of Commerce, which should be renamed the Communist China Chamber of Commerce for their promoting the outsourcing of jobs to Asia. They just spent $Millions, btw, to defeat Dems in CONgress.
Supreme Court Reviews Arizona’s E-Verify Law.
"Last week the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Chamber of Commerce of the U.S. v. Whiting, a lawsuit filed by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in an attempt to strike down Arizona’s mandatory E-Verify law. The statute (H.B. 2779) was signed into law by the former Governor of Arizona and current Homeland Security Secretary, Janet Napolitano, in 2007. H.B. 2779 requires that all state employers (public and private) confirm that employees are work-authorized through the federal E-Verify system. The law authorizes the state to suspend or revoke the business licenses of employers determined to have “knowingly” or “intentionally” hired illegal aliens. Mirroring federal law, H.B. 2779 also contains a rebuttable presumption that employers who utilize E-Verify have not intentionally hired illegal aliens.
The Chamber of Commerce, which has consistently opposed E-Verify measures and supported mass guest worker programs, sued the State of Arizona to strike the law shortly after it was enacted in 2007. In Whiting, the Chamber and other open borders groups contend that Arizona’s mandatory E-Verify statute is unconstitutional because it violates the Due Process Clause of both the U.S. and Arizona Constitutions, and the Commerce and Supremacy Clauses of the U.S. Constitution. The Chamber has primarily argued that because Congress implemented the E-Verify system as a voluntary pilot program, Arizona is preempted from making it mandatory..."
Gentlemen ,please take your politics elsewhere.
Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, or Sean Hannity, or Glen Beck thoroughly cover this information. They don't talk about Model T's. Lets talk about T's here!
Wonderfull,now we git to put illegal aliens thru college while everyone that pays taxes cant afford to send thier own children to the same colleges.
Makes no sense.
I payed into social security for about 17 years before getting hurt on the job and retired out on disablity from the state.But social securitys rateing system is different of course.I am now going on my 4th year of trying to get my social security disablity benifits I payed into and according to the way the system was designed,I should be drawing it.But no,I can count money and operate a car,so according to the last judge,I am not disabled.I know ALOT of people on social security disablity driveing thier cars and counting thier money.
And like others have said,once i git to whatever age to be able to draw it,it wont be there.The age will probably be 90 before long to draw it.
And I was under the impression that social security money was supposed to be drawing intrest so it would build,thus not run out.?
Lyndon Johnson and his friends in Congress made it possible for the federal government to simply spend any money gathered by Social Security taxes. All the money is gone. Benefits are paid by continually increasing tax rates.
It is a classic Ponzi scheme.
The government does not consider you unemplyed if you make $100 a week or more.
The unemplyment rate is more like 15%.
Social Security withholdings has been going straight into the general fund for many, many years. It does not draw interest. It is not invested.
It really IS a ponzi scheme.
My social security went down. The deduction for my Medicare part D went up $2.50.
Several senators are now reconsidering their prior votes
against the repeal of the law behind "Don't Ask, Don't
Tell" (DADT). Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is expected
to file for a procedural vote as early as today - meaning
a vote will take place this week. We cannot abandon our
troops to a politically-motivated campaign bent on social
engineering in a time of war! See my message below - Mat.
This could be Harry Reid's most outrageous end-run ever!
It appears that Reid and his lame duck Senate will try to
repeal the 1993 law prohibiting homosexuals serving in our
military (popularly referred to as the "Don't Ask, Don't
Tell" policy) as their last major act - and then beat a
hasty retreat from Washington.
Last week, a Republican-led effort prevented
passage of the repeal of the DADT policy with
little margin for error.
Now, several Senators are caving in to intense pressure
from pro-homosexual activists and other radical progressive
groups like Barrack Obama's Organizing for America.
Senators who previously voted against repeal are now
considering a switch to support the "stand-alone" repeal
bill brought by Senators Joe Lieberman and Susan Collins.
Our sources now tell us that the DADT repeal
HAS been added to the Senate's calendar this
week. Harry Reid can start the countdown to
the vote at any time!
++72 hours remain in this lame duck session if it is not
Congress is scheduled to adjourn on Friday, December 17th.
The DADT repeal vote could happen anytime starting Wednesday!
Yeh, John, change the subject from illegal immigration when you get cornered about who's responsible. That's ok.
If you get mad about the most profitable corporation in the history of the world, ExonMob, paying zero US income tax, you will be more on the right track. When you get mad at Google for running their profits through Ireland to the Cayman Islands, to end up paying only 3% income tax on their $Billions in profit, you will see the banksters for what they are.
The advertised differences between the two parties are almost trivia, but they're great for whipping up the masses to distract from the really important issues. Obama is Bu$h III. The big money decides who will be elected and re-elected. Morals and scruples don't get money for campaigns.
Like Warren Buffett said, it's class warfare, and his class is winning.
Where did the Model T Forum go? This is a bit divisive. Politics in a Model T forum, no good will come of it. imho
Since I am a liberal Democrat is it OK to participate on this forum and be a member of MTFCA?
I agree with Mike. Let's get back to the Model T.
Enough of the right of center politics!
Mike & Daniel & George,
With all due respect, who is stopping you or anyone from talking model T's? You don't have to read this thread if you don't want to. Are you reading because you are afraid you might miss something?
George, I didn't hear anyone say that you or anyone can't participate on this forum regardless of your or their political affiliation! I think those who post this are just making conversation to get others opinions, to get a feeling where this is all going.
This string will be deleted unless I hear from someone who thinks it should remain active.
You were a contributor, I say leave it active!
John. No one is preventing me from talking about Model T's. Forums devoted to model T's exist so people can do so. I can provide links to many political forums for those that wish. it is somewhat a "social contract" that this is what it is all about. Now of course this is my view but it is to be a "free for all" you may soon have a forum that includes a wide range of topics that have no relation to the reason it exist. Perhaps that is what folks want. How about we open up the classifies for example to anything one wishes to sell? Just don't read the ads about snow mobiles for sale, doll collections?
Tho' not the case in this thread many forums have topic starters that start topics called bait. You run that risk without structure.
Lastly and an opinion only, this hobby is like all others, it must grow. Perhaps many on the left reading this in the public wants to join this club, I suggest this type of divisiveness may factor in, George kind of pointed it out. Just my opinion.
BTW, I read all topics, as a neophyte I'm trying to get a feel for the hobby and this club.
Again with all due respect, does every conversation you have stay on only one topic or do they sometimes evolve into other subjects? I think it is only natural to talk about current events with and amongst friends. Maybe there should be one spot for ant off topic thread. What do you or anyone think of that idea?
Maybe we should get back to figuring out how to clean a bolt for a few days!
Maybe we should, John. It would likely be more productive to the hobby than listening to all your rightwing political rant.
I don't think I included any opinion either way, just a FYI. Okay I'll let it rest and bury my head in the sand too.
Back to the bolt!
I suspect that one's objection to an expression of political views varies with the degree to which one agrees or disagrees with the views expressed. In any case, this thread is clearly marked in the subject line as being off topic, so people who object to off-topic threads shouldn't be reading it in the first place...
An off topic thread makes more sense than mixing it all together as opposed to this structure. It would not change however the fact that it may hinder growth. I recently went into the tire shop and the owner started talking politics. I don't mind if he wishes, but he caught hinself and said I never talk politics or religion in my shop. That old adage has been around a long time. No need to defend why I suspect.
I would delete the thread.
I do appreciate that Bruce is a hands off moderator but there is a moderator and there comes a time.
I agree with you, but I can respect others opinions and feelings too. I wish we could have a poll about off topic items and allowable topics, and get a consensuses.
I agree. If this is to be an open forum open to general discussion about any OT subject then so be it. Other forums and groups I belong to allow OT subjects with very narrow exceptions. They quickly move you back to the "mission statement" if you will, for their purpose were clearly stated to talk about XYZ. I've seen forums lose members that allowed any and all discussion. I've seen members quit as well over direction lost.
since bruce asked for opinions, in my opinion i say delete anything political or OT, which people want to hide behind.....take the zero tolerance approach that FORDBARN has taken. it has made it much nicer over there. ..... this is a model T hobby site, and there are plenty of places to go and vent about world issues, other than here.
Where do you draw the line?
The original post: "Just got my social security statement for 2011 and the good news is that the cost of living did NOT go up in 2010 just like 2009. So even though we didn't get a raise, we can still keep on buying those T parts as our paycheck buys just as much now as it did in 2008. BUY, BUY, BUY!"
Yes, politics and its handmaiden, economics, has as much affect on aFordability as rarity does. Should we avoid discussion of prices and values?
For example, I see early brass T prices climbing steeply, while the rest won't keep up with inflation. That's because there are fewer people with money to spend on old cars, while some of those fewer have more money than ever.
Isn't a hobby site a loose knit group with few rules if any? Did you mean no OT at all? So we can't talk about veterans day, someone passing, maybe the death of a president, the great deal someone just got on a Studebaker, just model T and nothing else? Just asking?
I guess the rules of the dinner table apply. No talking about sex, religion, or politics. We have enough problems reaching across the aisle and developing a bipartisan agreement concerning the use of waterpumps and distributors.
"We have enough problems reaching across the aisle and developing a bipartisan agreement concerning the use of waterpumps and distributors."
Hmmm.... I must have not been here the day we developed that particular agreement.
You have my vote to delete this posting.
As much as I would like to discuss politics, this forum is for discussing Model T's and other automobiles if need be with an OT posting.
Again with all due respect, this is one thread on the forum, not the forum itself. Why is it that those who claim they don't want OT topics or this type of topic are the ones who read them the most and make the most noise about them. I guess they can't help themselves.
As the originator of this thread, I can assure you I did not want to start a ploitical debate. I was actually just making fun of the fools who run our government that, while giving thenselves raises, expect us to believe them when they tell us we don't get a raise because there was no increase in the cost of living since 2008. Just pointing out the absurdity of their logic. As far as liberal vs. conservative or democrat vs. republican, how about if we try to agree that all politicians are in office for two reasons:
1. To feather their own nests
2. To steal as much of our money as they can while in office.
Post away, folks. No skin off my nose. Just don't delude yourself that you're going to convert anybody to your political point of view. You're just spinning your electronic wheels. Unlike the best timer, the use of water pumps or distributors, or the best oil, all of which are subject to reasoned persuasion based on empirical evidence, political opinions are generally impervious to reason. In regard to politics, the words of Chester A. Riley apply: "My head is made up."
My dad used to say;
"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one"
All of the other forums I frequent have a separate area for "non-topic" discussions which would alleviate the problem for those that feel we should always stay strictly discussing Model T's. I personally work on my old cars as relaxation and a way to escape daily problems. I would prefer to keep this forum on the topic of "automotive" discussions. There are literally millions of other forums on the web to discuss politics etc.
Why is it that folkes allways get on a off topic thread and complain that it is off topic and should be deleted?The thread is clearly marked off topic and if someone is hades bent to stay on topic,why did they open the thread in the first place????
This site is no different than if a group of us met in a shop or whatever and happen to get off topic in person.We are a diverse group of people with different back grounds and different opionions and different struggles.Some have no struggles with bottomless pockets,others scrape the barrel bottom to get by.The T's link us together as a common intrest.
If you delete a off topic thread because it has some politics in it,what would stop the topic police from bothering poor Bruce to delete a thread with a few good jokes or some intresting photographs or someones other similar hobbys?
Unless it gets personal between 2 people or something,I wouldnt bother deleteing it.
We all know we aint gona aggree on everything.
I cant quite put Bush and Obama in the same cubby hole.Obama would still be trying to talk to Bin laden,while Bush wanted to blow everything up around him.
I disaggree with both and there shoulda just been 1 big nuclear bomb topped off with pig inards dropped over that region and to heck with it.
Mack, this world needs a lot more guys who think like you do, and that's the truth.
Leave it up Bruce.
Where else can I get an idea of how folks that I sorta know think of the political situation?
Any that don't like it shouldn't keep reading the thread.
When an opinion is posted that you don't agree with you can't complain anymore than I could ask Bruce to delete a thread when someone posts that you should use 20-50 oil or non-detergent oil or that you should paint the engine model A green and put disc brakes on the rear wheels.
You can either PM them or e-mail them, Aaron.
Threads like this one are likely detrimental to the future of the hobby because they just might turn away newcomers. Sure Bruce, leave it up if the future of the hobby means little.
There are plenty of folks that lurk to get the information they need. They lurk because of threads like this one.
.....we all know that in all matters of mere opinion that [every] man is insane-just as insane
as we are..... we know exactly where to put our finger upon his insanity; it is where his opinion differs from ours..... All Democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it. None but the Republicans. All the Republicans are insane, but only the Democrats can perceive it. The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.