Emissions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Emissions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alexander Douglas Kennedy on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 01:07 am:

Does anybody know about the emissions of a model T
I know T's are smog exempt, but I'm curious


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 01:21 am:

When I cook beans in my cooker,the emissions go thru the roof.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.Woods on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 01:28 am:

When I eat beans, the emissions get me kicked out of the house.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 01:37 am:

The only emissions that can be easily detected on my T's is that tell tale trail of oil drippings.....:-)



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 02:06 am:

In all seriousness, in most states, they fit under a 'grandfather clause'. Cars built before certain dates only have to comply to the emission/safety laws on the books when they were built. Naturally, there were no safety/emission laws when the T was built.
You can get yourself in a bind in some states if you have no title and have to register a Model T as a 'specially constructed vehicle', not usually with emissions but with things such as safety belts and turn signals.
In reality, the T engine doesn't put out much more "smog" (hydrocarbons) than an oil fired furnace. It was the higher compression engines that started the 'smog wars'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 07:13 am:

The low compression of the Model T means that the combustion is not hot enough to form nitrogen oxides, the NOX, that forms smog.

The about of carbon monoxide, CO, and unburnt carbon that the T puts out depends on how well the T is running and how the carburator and spark are adjusted.

Has anyone taken a T to a smog station to have it tested?

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 08:05 am:

Believe it or not, in NJ a Model T is required to pass an emissions inspection if it is not registered as "Historic." All pre-1968 vehicles have to meet the same standard (1400ppm-HC, 8.5%-CO).

2010 inspection


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 08:15 am:

That's interesting John. It looks like a good running Model T comes in well below the limits.
Just out of curiosity, what do they soak you for this revenue generating, administrative, "Tap Dance".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 12:46 pm:

I had my 1926 engine tested last month by Dr Jim Cowart, the Naval Academy professor who is into this stuff.

Here are my readings for one spark and throttle setting.

Snuffer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 12:53 pm:

That was not my best example. That was the warm up mode of operation.

2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 06:54 pm:

Dennis - This test was done at a NJ state inspection station so there was no out-of-pocket cost. The testing has to be done every two years. This year NJ went to an emissions-only inspection (no more safety inspection) which took some of the fun out of going to the inspection station... ;-)

The first time I took it to a NJ inspection station the manager refused to inspect it and said that it had to go to a special inspection station. However after a long phone call to his manager in Trenton, he was told that they had to inspect it and boy was he unhappy about it, particularly because their rules said that the inspector had to drive the car down the inspection line. Subsequent visits were different - in fact, the inspection station employees were the ones taking pictures of the car instead of just the other car owners at the inspection station. I guess it made an impression on them because when I took a Ford Explorer there last week they recognized me by sight and asked how the Model T was doing!

I would love to have had access to the tester that James used before going to the inspection station. In the few tests I've had I've learned a few things about this Model T's emissions. First, failing the hydrocarbon emissions would indicate that something is seriously wrong. An ignition miss would significantly degrade the readings however. I've had HC readings between 158 and 710. Second, the CO test is not so easy to pass. In order to pass the CO test, the mixture seems to need to be lean to the point of inducing a lean miss.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.J. "Art" Bell on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 07:58 pm:

I happened on a government roving smog test set up in a shopping center
back in June of 1989 (smog test was not compulsory) and got in the line-up.
I was driving my 1980 Ford F150 that I purchased new in 1980, and had
converted to propane (dual fuel) in 1981, that was still using factory timing
settings for gasoline. No tune ups since new, but smog (air) pump was removed.
When my turn came they were reluctant to run the test because of the missing pump,
but decided as no propane vehicles had come thru in the two days they had been set up,
that they would run me thru on propane. Mine was the cleanest vehicle yet tested.

Idle Test 550 rpm
HC PPM 0
CO % - 0.00
02 % - 0.00
CO2 % - 10.0

Low Cruise Test 1400 rpm
HC PPM - 0
CO % - 0.00
O2 % - 0.00
CO2 % - 11.0

The High Cruise Test 2500 rpm was the same as the low cruise readings.
They did not comment on the CO2, so not sure if it was good or bad.
I never thought to mention that I was running an inverse oiler with MMO.
The test was not done under load, so the MMO was not likely a factor.

Regards
Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 08:29 pm:

John, that "liquid leak" section must be hard for the T to pass I bet.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 - 12:01 am:

Once upon a time I bought a low miles since overhaul '64 Corvair engine. I installed it in my '61 Lakewood wagon over the weekend, and it ran really smooth. The first chance I had to drive it was to work on Monday, and it had so little power it could hardly pull its own weight.

As luck would have it, I got caught in a smog trap that morning. I was expecting the worst, but the cop said it was really clean, but didn't give me a printout. That was a puzzler. A compression check showed real low (60?), so I pulled the engine and tore it down.

The prior owner had rebuilt it, but used late pistons with an early, smaller stroke, crankshaft, so it had about 4:1 compression.

And that's how this experience relates to a Model T...

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 - 02:10 am:

Having an adjustable air/fuel mixture must be interesting to these Smog guys. You can lean it out to pass the test, then richen it up and drive away.


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