Speedster question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Speedster question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By martin Cooke on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 11:19 am:

I am reassembling my speedster and I have installed a 2.5 inch dropped axel. My latest problem is the wishbone will now hit the steering linkage because I have the early style above axel wishbone. Can I heat and bend the spindle arms up or should I just get newer perches and install a lower wishbone?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nicholas Lingg on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 11:30 am:

Can't you just turn them over?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 11:33 am:

The early wishbone is dangerous. There were lots of aftermarket braces for it in the era. I use a late wishbone welded to the early one, and it works good, and needed with front brakes.

The early tie rod has the draglink ball in line with the tie rod. The late tie rod has offset ball that also serves as the tie rod clamp bolt. Maybe the one you don't have will work.

Keeping the draglink as parallel to the tie rod as possible will minimize bump steer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 11:49 am:

Ricks, any chance you have a few photos of that welded up wishbone combo?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 11:54 am:

No pix, Sorry. It's just a castrated late wishbone (ball cut off) welded to the early one at the V. The early one was used as the guide for caster.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 01:37 pm:

Ricks, did you bolt it up, then weld them together? Or do it off the car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 01:48 pm:

Actually, the first one I bought at the Long Beach Swap in 1997. It has about 13 degrees caster. The second one was done off the car, but I think it would be better to do it on car with WOW, Weight On Wheels.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 06:30 pm:

Martin. Before you do anything drastic, try swapping the steering arms, from left to right. Depending on the arms, that may lower or raise the tie rod, to give you the clearance that you need.

There are differences in the steering arms, so anothe option would be to get the other style of arms, for the same reason. I dont know what years are what, bit I'm sure that somebody else will chime in with that info.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indy on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 09:44 pm:

Ricks's solution won't help with the original question. The original early style wishbone is in the way.
I was looking at a lot of Speedster pics and all the ones I saw had the later wishbone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 10:17 pm:

This is double wishbone, stock spindle arms, early tie rod, and stock steer gear.



If you don't have double wishbone, you better have the late one.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 10:18 pm:

Martin, do you have pix of your setup?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 - 11:13 pm:

I would install the later wishbone and it should clear. I don't think you need to change the perch to do that.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indy on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 07:59 am:

Don't swap the spindles from side to side as an option. The threads for the wheel bearings will be reversed and could cause them to tighten up while driving down the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indy on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 08:35 am:

I misunderstood one of the previous posts. Turning the spindles over may be an option.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 10:18 am:

Andy, The later wishbone does use different perches. I doubt that the early perches would have enough thread to allow them to be used. By using the newer style of wishbone, that mounts underneath, it would use up some of the threads so you couldnt install the cotter pin.

Kenny. Turning the spindles over would change the camber. The wheels would no longer be canted in, (look at the pics Rick posted) but would actually be canted outwards.

Check into getting the different style of steering arms, as they are bent. By swapping those, side to side, you may be able to get the clearance that you need. Thats what I had to do with my Speedster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 11:28 pm:

I stand corrected, I checked my 14 and the perch threads do appear too short for the later nut.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 11:59 pm:

I believe the driveshaft pinion nut can be used instead of the larger perch nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 12:48 am:

What if you turn over just the spindle arms? (if i understood it correctly?)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indy on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 07:21 am:

Thunder, I looked at the front axle on one of my T's yesterday and turning the spindles over is a non issue. It won't work, there's not room at the top of the axle for the area that's bulged out for the spindle arms.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker - Sumter, SC on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 09:48 am:

Martin,

A few pictures:

Below is a picture posted by Phil Mino showing the straight style spindle arm introduced in early 1911 – early 1919 (right side soon had a hole added for the speedometer swivel.) They had the tie rod below the old style above the axle wishbone.




Except for the hole to hold the speedometer swivel – they will function fine on either side - so if you don't have a speedometer it doesn't matter.



Below is a photo from Bruce’s “Comprehensive Model T Encyclopedia (use by permission – available from the vendors or at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/mccalley.htm ) showing the curved style 1919-1927 spindle arm on a 1920 car. Note it originally was installed so the bend goes up so the tie rod goes over the wishbone on the later cars.



They come in a right 2696C and a left 2696D side because of the bend they are not symetrical.



Below is a photo John Sizemore posted of a speedster he built. It shows the mid 1919 to 1927 style spindle arm. In this case he swapped the parts around so the curve goes down rather than up. From memory – and that is not very reliable – I think he has the drag link if front of the axle on this speedster. I don't know if you just rotate them 180 degrees or if you need to swap them side to side and rotate them 180 degrees. But with a pair of them you can move the tie rod lower or higher depending on how you install them.



Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and l907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 10:17 am:

There seems to be a bit of confusion here, as to what is said, and what needs to be done. Thank you Hap, for posting pics.

Haps first two pics, are steering arms. Those are the striaight (early) type. The second two pics, show the bent (later) style. One in the correct position, the other, incorrect. However, by using the later style, you can swap them, side to side, just for the reasons shown in the third & fourth pictures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By martin Cooke on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 05:16 pm:

Thanks for all the advice. I do have the straight spindle arms but even with the bent ones there is not enough clearance. I will go with the lower wishbone and new lower perches. I will post some pictures Saturday.


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