Here is the commutator rod and connector I have. What do I need to have?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Here is the commutator rod and connector I have. What do I need to have?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 09:50 am:

While in the process of re-assembling a 1911, I find my timer control rod and connector are unique. Looks like a farmer fabrication, but I have not seen a correct one to compare. The threaded end seems to have been beat down and a hole added. A unique fork added to the arm. What do I need to make this right?

control rod

control rod

.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 10:21 am:

Ward
This may not be exactly original, but a 1912 Model T I worked on was as follows:
The end of the timer pull rod was threaded. You can see remnants of threads on yours.
There was a ball joint linkage with the shank end screwed onto the end of the timer pull rod and had a lock nut. The bolt end of the ball joint linkage went into the hole in the end of the timer pull lever(shown) that was pinned to the end of the spark lever rod. You can see the pin hole in yours. I recall the Ford ball joint linkage had 12-32 threads (same as the coil point mounting nuts) on both ends.
When John Regan sees your question he will surely know exactly how it was originally.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 10:59 am:

That sounds right. From what I have read in Bruce's book and some of the other materials I have, the linkage you describe was used for quite a few years. But I cannot find a picture of the correct set-up. Anyway I need one of these if anyone has one.

the fork above actually swivels, but not too well, and it creates a binding action.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 11:43 am:

The stock ball and socket set-up have a tendency to wear, sometimes to the point where the ball will pop out of the socket. Not a happy situation when that occurs.

Your "homemade fix" was probably a remedy to a worn out ball and socket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 11:44 am:

Ward: You are right about the farmer forged part! There is no hole in the threads, and they are not beat down either. As far as the clevis goes, that is probably from an other application. I hope you can find another commutator rod with threads. The ball joint that Ron mentioned is common.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino, near Porterville on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 12:36 pm:

11timerrod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen, Ham Lake, MN on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 12:50 pm:

Some of the vendors were selling these. I think you can find them in Lang's catalog at least.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 01:29 pm:

Ward
I don't know how you feel about keeping your Model T original, but as Warren said you can buy a new ball joint at McMaster and Carr for a few dollars. You can cut off and thread the end of a new timer pull rod. The new ball joints are 10-32 thread on both the shank and the stud end.
When I helped the fellow with the 1912 Model T we reused his original 12-32 thread ball joint and I used a 12-32 thread die on the end of a new timer pull rod. His original timer pull rod had been best so many times it was useless. I had that oddball thread die because I often use it on coil point mounting bolts
Not exactly original, but it worked very well.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Thursday, December 16, 2010 - 02:57 pm:

I forgot to check the FordFarm site for that nice picture! Warren is right, these things were reproduced, I have a 2008 catalog and there it is, BUT, it is no longer in the catalog.

I may have to fabricate something like Ron suggests to get me going. I guess you would just fasten the new McMaster ball joint to the eye in the spark lever with a small bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 01:55 am:

Ward-
I have an extra NOS swivel that I will send you. Send me an e-mail.
-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 02:20 am:

Is this related to the question i needed to ask about the spark lever rod? Not trying to steak the topic but i would like to know how long the thing on the end needs to be here i drew a really bad picturesdfghjkhg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 11:43 am:

Here is a photo of the ball joint M & C sells. very similar to an original. As i said the threads are 10-32 as opposed to original Ford 12-32 and it would need a cotter key hole drilled in the stud.
1
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 12:00 pm:

If I understand your question correctly; the two rods are different lengths. From the base of the springs holding the rods in place under the flange, the spark rod on mine (1911) is about 22 3/4 inches long and the carburetor rod is about 19 inches long.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 12:29 pm:

Ron I found that linkage in the Mc Master catalog and the current version appears to have 1/4 x 20 threads. Item 6085K43
Ward


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 12:32 pm:

Ward
M & C #6058K41
Ron


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 03:35 pm:

Ron, I see the one you describe now. I was looking at this one, which looks very similar to the original part

linkage

I think I have an original one on the way to me, so my problem may be solved. I actually have many more problems to be solved, but I may have fixed this one!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman, New Zealand on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 07:27 pm:

Kep, on RHD Ts the throttle and spark are opposite to LHD.
Assuming yours is RHD then:

1) Throttle looks like this :



2) Spark advance like this (note it feeds across to the bottom of the commutator - just turn a standard one 180 degrees (upside down), and the linkage arm is different size to US version:



(The spark arm clears the chassis rail - there is no need for any cut-out like the one that is on my chassis. This was done well before I got the TT and probably due to the wrong arm being used).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, December 17, 2010 - 07:40 pm:

Ok thanks Adrian Whiteman, i will use the pictures to figure out the exact length


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