My disc wheel idea

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: My disc wheel idea
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward, Mountain. Ont on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 05:31 pm:

in response, in case my e mail didn't make it
My idea
use the metal feloe from the existing wheel,
designing a 2 disc , welded set up that will put 1/2" or 5/8" carrage bolts (nut inside wheel)(you'll see the carrage head from outside) in line with the existing spoke holes
depending on the existing hole size on your rim ,
from here the 2 discs will bow out , there will be a hole in the center to fit the original hub
I will have an holes around this to fit the original hub bolts,
but will require a spacer to prevent it from from being to narrow when bolted tight

does this make sense to you?
I have it at the metal shop now,
it should be the least expensive way for all the club members who want discs, to convert
and recycles their parts and not need to respoke at 15$ a spoke

shawn


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 07:50 pm:

Shawn

The simple way back when, was just metal 'shields' (disc) over the spoke wheels. Some just wood screws into the wood felloe, and then bolted to the hub center with the hub bolts.

If demountable, then slots made in the outer shield to fit to the 4 felloe rim bolts. The the center of the shield bolted to the hub bolts.

Of course each 'disc' needs a hole to access the valve stem to fill the tube :-)



Some engineering would be needed for real disc wheels. The center of each disc as you describe would be held by only bolts at the hub. A lot of load is at the center, that's why wood spokes meet at the center union. Some type of thick center may be needed. All the load on just 6 bolts in sheet metal against the flat hub plates seems risky.






Below are Disteel brand disc, with a special hub to fit the Ford spindle, the outer clamp ring with 3 lugs bolts the center of the disc to the special hub. The opening in the disc has a bevel face to fit tight to the hub, giving support. The outer clamp ring secures the disc wheel to the special hub. Steel disc is riveted to the clincher rim all the way around for lots of support and strength.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 08:07 pm:

how about making an affordable disk covers that cover the wood spoke wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 08:15 pm:

Tyrone

Don Lang used to have repop discs for demountable clinchers. He told me they just gathered dust for years. Never much interest. Think they are all gone now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward, Mountain. Ont on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 08:28 pm:

Tryrone
I don't want anyone to have to re spoke thier wheels and then disc them,
my idea is to save us all some money,
I think my wheel will work , just need the time to finish it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 09:14 pm:

Shawn. I sent you an e-mail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 09:26 pm:

I remember seeing a speedster that had polished brass drum cymbals modified to fit the outside of the wood wheels. Pretty slick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Oder on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 09:40 pm:


quote:

Disteel brand




Packard liked Disteels enough to make them standard, though these were the lock ring style.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/30Packard/03.jpg

J.O.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable Kiama Australia on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 12:39 am:

Shawn, what gauge metal are you going to use to make the discs?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CHRIS MARTIN on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 02:10 am:

Oh dear, what is Peter planning next?
C.M.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward, Mountain. Ont on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 05:52 am:

Peter
I am experimenting with two ideas
1 a heavier guage, single disc with a built out hub
the second is a two disc welded unit, lighter metal hollow ,with a flush hub
I am hopeing the 1 disc idea works without haveing to go to thick a gauge


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - Lyons, GA on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 01:21 pm:

I would ensure that the load was supported at the hub and the bolts were used only to keep it from coming off. Just like a modern steel wheel. I would not let the bolts support the vehicle. If you do, I believe you are just asking for wear and cracks in a very critical area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 07:45 pm:

I don't know if I should mention this old idea or not.
A long (long) time ago, I seriously considered making some disc wheels out of harrow discs. My grandfather had a ranch outside Modesto CA when I was young and had a lot of old worn discs around the place. He made lots of things out of them including floor lamp bases. I still have his shop lamp. Unfortunately, most of his old discs were worn enough that they were just a little too small to use for a T wheel.
This thread got me to wondering. So, I went online and found that Tractor Supply Co has harrow discs in sizes from about 14 inch to 36 inch by 2 inch increments. The center would have to be cut to size and flattened, or a special hub flange and shims made. The outer attachment could be done in a variety of ways including welding or rolling the edge and riveting it together like the originals were done. I would have some concerns about the quality of the steel. Heating and rolling the outer edge could be difficult due to inconsistent hardness in the steel alloy. Welding could also be a problem. The dish is deep enough and the disc thick enough that I don't think strength would be a problem as long as the attachment was all good.
As alluded to above. You don't want to simply bolt the disc onto the model T hub flange without some additional support. I know of more than one T speedster that lost a steel wheel because the flange broke off the hub.
happy Holidays, and drive carefully, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By peter kable Kiama Australia on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 09:33 pm:

Shawn, What I was asking is your actual metal thickness. You haven't given us enough actual information as to your design for an opinion on whether your wheels would actually work. Some of the points mentioned above need to be looked at but the actual metal its thickness and its cross section shape are just as important.

If the disc is flat it will have to be very thick and therefore heavy. You will note that the wheels shown above are dished and have domes or swages added to increase the strength as the diameter is so large. If you look at modern wheels this is even more pronounced because of the extra forces involved.

Wood wheels were used because they gave good strength for their weight, I'm sure Henry would have stamped steel disc wheels if they were practical ( he was stamping things a lot more complicated) The cost of the steel plus the dies etc would be more expensive. Its possible that a special grade of steel is needed instead of normal mild steel.

It will cost a lot to have steel discs spun to supply enough sideways strength, a lot more than to buy new wood spokes. Wire wheels even though more complicated again are light and strong.

If you could show us a drawing of you idea we may be able to help you further.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 06:31 am:

A few years ago, I found a sad Dodge 4 of about 1924, rusting away under some trees. It had obviously seen service as a farm hack, but I was rather intrigued with the disc wheels. On all four wheels, the rims had been welded to a disc from a disc plough. The scollops on the edge of the disc creating an interesting pattern where the edge of the disc met the rim. I can't be sure but I seem to remember that the hubs were bolted through the center of the discs.


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