Theft!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: Theft!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 09:00 pm:

This past week thieves came onto my property attracted by a stack of Model T Frames and engine oil pans that could be seen from the road that were stacked next to my parts shed. I live out in the country and never have had a problem in the past. They cut the lock on my shed and helped themselves to lots of very nice parts. Including 5 engine blocks, transmissions, flywheels, transmission covers, driveshafts and driveshaft tubes, fenders, running boards, radiators etc etc. The deputy that came out said that there has been a rash of iron thefts from farms. He also said that the thieves are not selling the scrap to local salvage yards, he thought they would take it out of state possibly to Iowa, Kansas or Missouri. Nebraska scrap buyers are required to get positive ID from all persons selling scrap. The reason for my post is to warn everyone to not leave iron where it is visable or you could suffer the same problem that I have. I really think this was done in broad daylight on Wednesday morning as I was gone early in the morning and returned home at noon to discover the theft. Three of the blocks were 1926 one 1921 and one 1916. I did give the deputy serial numbers for the blocks. But I doubt that it will help much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 09:06 pm:

Mike,

Thats not a very nice start to your Christmas, I hope they are caught, and that the rest of your Christmas is Merry! :-)

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 09:33 pm:

I doubt it was done by those who know Model T's, probably by scrap metal Punks, like the cop said.
Phone all the scrap metal dealers in your area anyway on Monday and tell them to be on the look-out for odd looking old car parts.
Sorry to hear you'll be starting the new year this way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike D , Williamsburg VA on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 10:41 pm:

Keep an eye on EBay..maybe you'll catch them trying to sell your stuff there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 10:53 pm:

Mike,

This is advice given to me to stop vandalism and theft. Get a BIG dog! Keep him near your valuables!

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 01:45 am:

John,

I have a big dog just not any fence around that shed. I'm sure my dog was making all kinds of noise, she is only about 40 ft from that shed and always barks when strangers are around. I was just not here to hear her. I'm usually around that time of day, just happened to be gone. I should have moved those parts that I had left outside into the shed that way they could not have been seen someone driving by looking for iron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 02:05 am:

Mike,

This is a long shot, but you could put up a sign that can be seen from the road that says will whoever cleaned up my yard please come back. I have more scrap iron I want to get rid of. You never know if someone stops, find out who they are and where they haul the scrap in casual conversation and tell them how much they are helping you and you have a friend with a pile of iron that needs to be picked up. Then notify the police of the location where they can catch the thief. You might get lucky. Make sure you have a pen and paper and write down their license number even if they know you are writing it down.

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Hughes, Raymond, NE on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 02:08 am:

Mike,

Wow, I'm sure sorry to hear of this. What's the world coming to anyway?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 02:15 am:

Steve,

I have the shakes I want to respond to your question so bad. I'll take my meds and stay on them. :-( It is Christmas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 02:24 am:

Steve,

Wow is right, They got a pretty good load. Watch your things, the deputy told me that it has been happening all over the county.

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 02:32 am:

Mike,

I guess I'm kind of cynical, my opinion, that is just the deputy's way of not doing his job. The police know who hauls the scrap in your area, after all they see the scrap trucks every day. They just don't stop them and ask where the scrap came from. All they have to say is we just had a report of some stolen scrap or parts and as long as it's in the open they have every right to stop the truck and ask questions!

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 03:27 am:


I can muster up a real case of attitude, when it comes to thieves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 07:08 am:

The heck with a .22.....at my house they would be getting a mouth full of 20mm automatic cannon



Like John it gives me the shakes. One thing I can't abide is theives. I know there are certain laws against man-trapping but I think once they cross the threshold of your dwelling the ball is in your park. I thoroughly advocate boobytraps, non-lethal and lethal within a residence or enclosed building. Alarms are great as well but allot of good it will do if you are out in the sticks like me. An old crack barrel shotgun or a peice of pipe and shotgun shell fired by a mousetrap work well when directed towards a door and tripped via electric eye or lanyard.
I work away from home and when I am gone you'd better believe my place is rigged and rigged many times over.

If you have neinghbors Mike get to know them and have them watch your place while away. If you are out in the sticks like me then improvise. But first rule...don't present yourself an enticing opportunity for theft. Do your best to not leave that stuff out in the open.

Also you should contact the authorities in the surrounding areas/states, anywhere close to the state lines, possibly the closest recycling center out of state from your area and see if they show up.

Tell you what....I'd be hot on the warpath with this. I WOULD get my stuff back and I WOULD see them prosecuted. I don't give up or let go easy if at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 07:19 am:

And what John said about posting the sign about yard cleanup can sometimes work.
We are talking about people who aren't really that intelligent here. Just shy of retarded and missing teeth I'd say so there's a pretty good chance they'll come back. Maybe advertise a that you have scrap to cleanup and as folks arrive watch them, watch to see if they are familiar with your property, just tell them that someone came earlier and picked it up just before they got there. I've caught folks with similar bait before and let's just say they walk with a limp now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By richard wolf on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 09:08 am:

WOW Patrick,
You Lousiana boys sure know how to open a big can of whip ass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 09:13 am:

Some of us don't even need the big guns. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 09:36 am:

Here in Texas we have our own attitude towards thieves and taking care of business.
welcometotexas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money, Braidwood, IL on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:51 am:

About 16 years ago we had a neighbor kid who was going around breaking into houses. It escalated to breaking in while people were asleep. This happened to us. We woke up startled him and he ran out the back door. When the police came to investigate I told them who it was. I found it wasnt the first time, just the first while we were home. Anyway, with him coming into the house while we slept, I told the police that the next time they were called, it wouldn't be an emergency and they should bring their bodybag. Several days in a row we had the police at our house trying to dissuade me from injuring the intruder. I explained that the mere fact that they were at my house to tell me this meant that they fully expected him to return as I did. Anyway, the Dad found that they suspected his son and had searched his house with the sons permission. The dad went ballistic about invasion of his privacy and they played the tape with the bodybag reference. He changed his tune. We saw the kid in the store one day and he ran scared and we have never seen him again. He also stopped breaking into houses too. I gues with the right persuasion some can change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Hurt on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:04 am:

John,

Being I am a deputy please explain to me what the PROBABLE CAUSE is for stopping all of the junk haulers on the road?? If you were hauling a load of Model T parts how loud would you scream for being stopped just for taking home a load you legally bought privately or at an auction?? Hauling junk is not a crime and people can not just be stopped for what they haul.

When I work I see at least 6+ pickups with trailers hauling junk not to mention semi's also hauling junk. How many dont I see on an average day??

People easily complain about the police for not doing their jobs. How about the average citizen, many know who the theives, drug dealers etc are...but never report what they know because they dont want to get involved. From my experience these are usually the same people who complain about the police.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - Lyons, GA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:21 am:

I had a neighbor fire off a couple of rounds above the heads of some punks messing around in his scrap pile. To my knowledge, he's not had any more trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:43 am:

Brian,

This is not against you or any particular police person, just my experience.

Well first off I have done the job for the police three times to catch those that damaged and stole my property. The police said they would probably never catch them. I couldn't accept that, and I caught them within hours.

Now to answer your question If you have a report of stolen property or parts, the probable cause is you can see scrap or parts in the truck or do like all cops do stop them for what you thought was a bad brake light a bent license plate, whatever You know how to do it! I would NOT mind if you stopped me to check what I was hauling if you had a report of stolen scrap or parts! At least I would know the police were doing their job! Not just eating "Doughnuts" Yes I am bitter towards the police. If people could take the law in their own hands, Not Kill anybody but most here know what I mean, the theft and drugs would stop.

Now when you work don't you know who is driving those 6 trucks hauling junk? You do have a police radio right? Call the plate in when you stop the guy. check the load, scrap isn't tarpped in most places.

People don't get involved because when they do the prosecutors plea bargain things down and the criminals get off with a slap on the hand and nobody wants to deal with the repercussions from the thief, drug dealer or whoever.

I report to the police with little or no results.

As a deputy or police person I would be embarrassed to make the above statement! My dad (rest his soul) always said "If you can't do anything else become a cop" he was right. Most are best at making excuses.

No personal offence Brian, JMO

"Oh yea, Merry Christmas"

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kathy Sidenstricker on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:54 am:

Be sure and watch Craigslist and Ebay for your parts. Post a complete list here and we will all keep an eye out. I live in Southwest Missouri, I doubt the thieves would bring the scrap this far, but here are the numbers for the metal recyclers in my area:

Missouri Metal Recycling Incorporated(417) 673-3232 and Acme Metal Recycling Service
Joplin, Mo (417) 781-8524.

You also may want to alert Model T Haven. I have a Mustang parts store and get customer calls from time to time alerting me of stolen parts. Last summer my husband and employee testified in court about stolen Mustang parts and was able to send a guy away for a few years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 12:00 pm:

Brian must see people hauling scrap model T parts pretty often to claim that stopping someone hauling model T parts isn't probable cause.

I rather doubt he sees people hauling scrap antique car parts of any kind very often.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 12:28 pm:

I hate to say it, but I don't have a lot of faith in Law Enforcement's ability to deal with theft. Maybe it's because there's so much other stuff (murder, arson, etc.) going on. I have had two experiences. Once our home was robbed--obviously by kids as no really valuable stuff was taken, although we lost some sentimental family jewelry. My A roadster was in the garage, and they sat in it. On the windshield were very clear fingerpints, but the sheriff was not interested in them. I actually think it was my neighbor's kids--we never found out.
Second was the theft of the ties under the city railroad tracks we used for railroad motorcar runs. The tracks ran behind the cemetery. The folks by the road the thieves used had complained to the county sheriff many times, but the response was "it's only railroad ties." When a neighbor at the other end of the tracks saw the damaged track, he called me. I called the city police, and all of a sudden it was a problem! After an argument over in who's jurisdiction it was (the city took over, since it was city property), there was some action. Although we saw the thieves selling the ties by the side of the road (the DA's father even bought some), I had to do the leg work and find out who took them. When I told the police the name to look for they were incensed and wanted to know where I got that info--and it was a known criminal family. They were charged, but let off with a plea bargain to pay restitution (not put the track back together), so they started stealing copper from the railroad! The track has never been put back together, and it was part of the 4th railroad built in California. We don't run motorcars anymore either now.
I hope you find your stuff, but I'll bet they smashed the blocks and cut up the frames to cash them in.
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 12:35 pm:

It's far easier for a law enforcement officer to place a parking ticket on a windshield than to deal with a criminal that might be packing some heat.

So, that's often the low road they take.

The city gets money when the parking ticket is paid but it cost the city big bucks to deal with the criminal.

Money talks. It always has and that likely won't change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 01:02 pm:

I should let this go, but it bothers me enough that I will say it. I have two girls one 11 & one 10 years old, if something happened to them like what I going to say, well there would be a trial. With that said I'm NOT saying all cops are like this. This is true here in Iron County, Michigan in the last month. We had a State Trooper Charged with having sex with two girls one under 13, and the other very young, and the details are not released. Now how can you catch law breakers or thiefís or criminals when you are breaking the law having sex with kids. Another State Trooperís son was also charged with having sex with minors and itís the second time and dad keeps getting him off. A few years ago a local city cop was charged and convicted with soliciting women to have sex with him in lieu of getting a traffic ticket. He is no longer a cop. Did he do any jail time? NO. Some cops seem to think they are above the law and can do what they want. I caught another down by my shop having sex in the police car and I turned him in. Nothing was done about it, because they said it was consensual. So using the police car for consensual sex is ok, God forbid there was an emergency. Just saying. I do know some cops do care and try, just not enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 01:04 pm:

Here is Surf City several years ago, the police were pushing for more pay, so they slowed down their work, writing fewer crime reports, etc. That year, Surf City ranked as the safest city in America, showing they didn't need more money..

Crime reporting, like the GDP, COL, unemployment, etc., are altered and massaged to fit the agenda. The numbers are "revised" three months to a year later, to help the current numbers fit the agenda.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 01:08 pm:

Brian, I don't fault the street Cops. I'm a (civilian) member of the Florida Sheriff's Assoc. I know their hands are tied, when it comes to following through on "minor" crimes. And the cop on the street knows that if you follow through on the minor crimes, you don't have as many major crimes.
They get fed-up hauling in the same street punks again and again only to have the courts cut them loose.
It's just a shame that our "laws" and our "courts" are stacked against the honest citizen, as well as the officer on the beat.
A few years ago, I beat the ever loving snot out of a shoplifter trying steal some beer out of my store. My Sheriff buddies had to coach me on how to fill out the incident report so they didn't have to haul me in for for assault ("he resisted lawful detention by a store employee", as they put it).
The punk never came back in the store and once what happened got around 'da hood' shoplifting went way down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 01:13 pm:

By the way, that Armalite AR-7 with the (semi-legal) pistol grip, 20 round magazine and air cooled barrel, is the light stuff, I can do better.
It's just got a real imposing look, I don't want to have to shoot anybody. I'm a Viet Nam Vet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 03:17 pm:

Dennis - I'm well armed as well as being a retired Navy Vet. For the arms to be effective you have to be there to use them. I was not at home when this theft happened. If I would have been at home I would have held the thief at gun point or defended myself with whatever force necessary. Like you I don't want to have to shoot anybody. We have contacted several scrap buyers to be on the look out for old car parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 03:40 pm:

I am not complaining. Just stating that this forum may not need to be the place of debate for this. On the other hand, where else would I go.
This is a fence I can very much dance on either side of!
My son-in-law is a deputy sheriff, and I was raised to respect the law and all law officers. Mostly, I try to do that. Also, my dad, his friends, and I have participated in "stings" to catch thieves.
ON the OTHER HAND, I have had too many occasions to see officers hassling good citizens over the most minor offenses or not putting any effort into doing the job they are paid for. (If they are doing their job, they are not paid enough) Like some years ago, when I was sitting in my legally parked pickup when it was sideswiped by an apparent DUI. When I phoned the local police (in less than a minute) about the speeding, swerving vehicle, they said to me "what do you want us to do about it?". Or the time my then 18 year old son was walking home from work (about midnight) and found a passed-out-drunk younger kid laying out in the bushes next to the sidewalk. My son walked over to where he found a city police officer to report it. The officer called for backup so they could both hassle my son for twenty minutes before they even checked to see if my son was telling the truth. It was 34 degrees out at the time (Bank time/temp was right there). The passed-out-drunk-kid wasn't even wearing a jacket and could have died. The two city officers had nothing better to do than hassle a good Samaritan? It is no wonder that to this day, my son does not trust the police. He was not raised that way.
I've spouted enough.
Except to add, I like the sign,

"Forget the dog,
Beware of owner"

Happy Holidays, and be careful, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 04:20 pm:

My daughter is a deputy sheriff here in Ca.
I'm sure she would say that Wayne's post is pretty much the way it is. And her husband is also a deputy sheriff but roving partol.
I have know a few cops who quit because they were just so discusted with what people get away with and how much time they had to waste on innocent people.
After 3 car break-ins in Oakland where I worked, two with witnesses, I can tell you that they are not reported. The police refused to take the report. It happened in an industrial area in the daytime, but once was on the weekend.
I am doing part time auto repair in a large machine shop where the owner tells me he takes on jobs and the customers often call back to tell him they will not come to that area to have work done. Too scarey. The cops stay away from that area too. I have never seen one in blocks.
About 12 years ago I was held up and robbed at gunpoint in Berkeley. It aint fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 05:17 pm:

If you had a public execution of one really bad obvious theif with as many people watching as possible the crime rate might go down a little bit.
Alternatively a real life superhero that strikes fear into people might work, All you need is a reasonably fit guy with alot of time & give him some gadgets like a net gun, Fast car, Hearingaid style listening device & maybe a thing that fires rope with a hook on it to let him scale buildings faster & get him to frighten the life out of a few criminals at random & feature it in the newspaper but have the press deny any knowlege of his origons & you have a recipe for fear among dishonest people


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 05:22 pm:

Mike,

Sorry to hear about the theft.

I hope your Christmas is going well,

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 07:24 pm:

Illegal drugs are the big gorilla in crimes. We have more prisoners than any other nation in the world. The war on drugs has been about as successful as our shooting wars since 1950.

Even Rev. Pat Robertson has come out in favor of legalizing marijuana, which is a far cry from meth and opiates.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 07:33 pm:

Ralph,

This doesn't bother me a bit, so please don't take offence on my comment!

Where are you now Daniel Green (Dexter, Mi)? Do you only pick on certin people?

This thread started out about theft, and has drifted a little, and now it's drugs. This is all fine with me. That is how conversation works.

Merry Christmas :-)

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 08:02 pm:

The worst thing the courts ever did to us was take "hard labor" out of prison sentences.
W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 08:08 pm:

Boy this thread went south quick. I served four years as an elected Constable in my county before an ill fated run for County Commission. I know many in law enforcement, a lot of very dedicated people and I'm sure some dead weight. There are many professional undesirables in our society. Almost every day I read of teachers, doctors,judges, preachers, lawyers...the list goes on and on, of "respectable" citizens that rape, rob and murder. I believe all this tirade has done is alienate a new forum member whom I feel sure joined for the sake of his Model T, not to be insulted for his profession...
IMHO
Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 08:23 pm:

Bob,

Your right, but in all fairness, he put his foot in this thread! It wasn't all that T related if that was all he was interested in! :-)

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 08:26 pm:

Public executions? Really? Let's review a little history, shall we? When hanging was the penalty for stealing a loaf of bread (English law, not Sharia), pickpockets worked the crowds at the public executions. Severity of punishment is a poor deterrent. Certainty of punishment is a good deterrent. As long as most criminals go uncaught or unpunished, they feel no trepidation. We once had a gubernatorial candidate campaign on a promise to reduce crime by bringing back the death penalty, and that idiotic notion got him elected governor.

Restitution is a fine thing. I wish it was real. The guy who boosted my MIG welder was ordered to provide restitution. I would get a check for ten or twenty dollars every two or three months until the total reached the original purchase price. In my book restitution would require that the SOB buy back the stolen property from the crooked pawn shop that fenced it, or buy the same model new item, and deliver it. The names of my thief and his criminal wife still show up occasionally in the local police news, so obviously no lesson was taught or learned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 09:12 pm:

I think that I'm fairly "thick skinned" about things, but this topic really has me pissed off, on NUMEROUS aspects!

First of all, as a scrap metal hauler, who DOESN'T have all his teeth, thanks for pointing THAT out, Patrick Martin, (Thanks to a bullet I caught, in the mouth, during the first Gulf War) please let me explain, what we have to go through, to ship a load. My truck is video taped, as we go over the scales. We have to show, a photo ID, when we scale out. Also signing a document, that we have "Lawful ownership, of said load, and "Right to Scrap", said load. Let alone the licensing, registration, and insurance, of my trucks. And by the way, Mr Martin, I do hold a Degree or two. Thank you!

My drivers, being that we have Government Contracts, undergo a background investigation, a credit check, and a physical with a drug screening, before being hired! Further checks, include a additional drug tests, many of these at random!

As far as whining, and complaining about your Police.... I suggest that YOU, pin that badge, to YOUR chest! Put YOUR life, on the line, and walk in danders way, before you complain.

But please let me tell you a bit about that. I have memories celebrating Christmas, watching my fiance, placing flowers, on her Brother's grave, with tears in her eyes. He gave his life, in protecting YOU, from the criminals, that you speak of. She vowed, to give her life, seeking Justice, and upholding the Law! And so she did! December 22nd, 1988, she gave her life, protecting YOU, from those people. The person, she was serving the warrant to, had only traffic violations! He came out shooting!

I carried her to her final resting place, and placed my ring to her, on her casket! She was laid to rest, beside her Brother. Today, their Mother, celebrates Christmas, without her Son, and her Daughter! Two of her children, gave their lives for you!

I feel for you, Mike Vaughn. I really do. But for most of the rest of you.... Stop your whining! DO something about it!

To you, Brian Hurt. Please continue to serve your community. And if your Wife ever needs a person to talk to, when you are out protecting us, she only needs to ask for my phone number. I'll be here for her if she needs a friend. Walk proud my friend. Walk proud.

To Dennis Halpin, and Mike Vaughn, thank you for your service. And Welcome Home my Brothers.

Huey Lewis said it best.

"Its over now, or so they say. But sometimes it dont work out that way. 'Cause you're never the same, when you've been under fire"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgdJnNc1Zns


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 09:42 pm:

John,
I don't think "putting his foot in this thread" is applicable to a man upholding his honor and profession. As far as T related, I see very little in this diatribe regarding Model T's.


Totally off subject,certainly wouldn't want to be accused of thread hijacking: It is snowing in Auburn Alabama...it has never snowed in some areas of Alabama on Christmas Day, I believe it is a first for Auburn. Please ignore this note.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:00 pm:

Now listen here buddy boy, what I said was directed toward no one but thieves in general. All I am saying is that the people that have been hitting Mikes area stealing scrap are evidentially people of low mentality because they CHOOSE to steal. I mean c'mon...what person in his right mind or has any shred of decency does that. That is the trait of an animal, not a human.

You can pick out what you will, but I meant no insult to you or anyone who has lost any teeth whether naturally or through some injury. I apologize if you took it that way but frankly I also find it ridiculous that you did as well. I mean I'm pretty sure I made this clear so you shouldn't have taken any offense unless you are a thief.

And as far as supporting the authorities I never metioned anything about that. I fully support mine and many are good friends but out here (and even in developed areas) in situations like this they are usually not there to prevent the crime from taking place so yes I also say DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Do it legally, but do something about it. So yeah....we agree on that, but from reading the rest of the posts above so does everyone else and for the most part we were offering suggestions and sympathizing with him because THIS IS A PROBLEM. Maybe this topic got a bit sidetracked but guess what...tis is a free forum! We are just chatting and so what if it deviates a little...enjoy just conversing with one another! For Gods sake I can't think of anytime I've ever conversed with people where the topic didn't stray a little. So chill bud, no harm done and nobody's pointing fingers at anyone here...least I'd hope not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:10 pm:

If punishment does not deter crime, why do we bother to arrest criminals?
I have yet to hear about a criminal who committed another crime after he got the death penalty.
Thunder; sad story. Thanks for posting it. Now tell us the punishment the guy got that killed your fiance. Any? Is he out now?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:13 pm:

Great. Now because I was insulted by a stereotype, I'm ridiculed for that, and accused of being a thief!

Anything else Patrick? You are on a roll, keep going....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:17 pm:

Never said that. Not at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:28 pm:

Patrick, from your posts :

"We are talking about people who aren't really that intelligent here. Just shy of retarded and missing teeth I'd say"
I'm kinda thinking, thats a stereotype here..... But those are MY thoughts. After all, I am a Scrap Metal Hauler, and I dont have all my own teeth. Though my Certificates are placed upon my office wall ....

"I apologize if you took it that way but frankly I also find it ridiculous that you did as well. I mean I'm pretty sure I made this clear so you shouldn't have taken any offense unless you are a thief."
Please re-read, those last five words.....

Aaron. Life term. And thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:50 pm:

Boy, I sure miss the good old days of water pumps, True Fires and ethanol....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 10:59 pm:

""We are talking about people who aren't really that intelligent here. Just shy of retarded and missing teeth I'd say"
I'm kinda thinking, thats a stereotype here..... But those are MY thoughts. After all, I am a Scrap Metal Hauler, and I dont have all my own teeth. Though my Certificates are placed upon my office wall ....""

Well if you thought this then I apologize because that was neither my intent nor the point I was trying to get across. Sorry bout that. You engage in this business legally with permission from those you collect from so it does not apply. But don't think for once I was name calling or poking fun at someone because of their injury. Maybe that was a bad way to put it but I didn't expect anyone would be really touchy about it. I do apologize bub.

""I apologize if you took it that way but frankly I also find it ridiculous that you did as well. I mean I'm pretty sure I made this clear so you shouldn't have taken any offense unless you are a thief."
Please re-read, those last five words.....""

I mean this in general. I have always stood by the idea that if you(you meaning any person in general) does wrong or has a guilty conscience, they are often times the first to make noise about it or say it wasn't me. People are predictable; they tell you everything about themselves if you just listen.

So no offense, my apologizes if you took it that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:02 pm:

Bob,

With all due respect, with all the threads on this forum, you just can't stop your self from reading this one. I guess your not really into Model Ts that much since you would rather be here on this thread, than on a completly on topic Model T thread. :-)

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck - Shreveport, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:03 pm:

Bob,

Maybe Forum 2011 will return us to the good old days. :-)

Merry Christmas and enjoy that snow!

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:11 pm:

Patrick, for what its Worth, I'll shake your hand, welcome you as a friend, and buy whatever it is that you're drinking, if we ever meet at a show or swapmeet.

Yes. I'm sure that I over reacted. So allow me to appologize, and say, Merry Christmas sir, to you and yours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:18 pm:

And I you sir, my apologies again my friend and Merry Christmas to you and yours too! :-)

And Mike I hope you will update us on the progress of this. What a terrible way to open the new year :-/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 11:45 pm:

You mean to tell me if a citizen reports stuff stolen that could be scraped is not enough probable cause to check loads? WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS????
A legit hauler shouldnt be unhappy about you checking his cargo,if you go about it respectably.
I relize once it gets in the hands of judges and lawyers,that is another ball of wax.But when the scouts in the field aint even trying,how does a citizen have a chance at justice?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Peterson on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 12:39 am:

Mack, a load of model T scrap is not probable cause to get pulled over. If u said , I came home and this red dodge pickup was hauling my T parts out my driveway, then they would have probable cause to stop red dodge pickups hauling T parts, not every pickup hauling scrap. same as say a woman saying some man raped her, its not probable cause to stop and ask every man about it, but lets say, if she said some tall bald headed guy , thats missing some teeth, and walks with a limp , that gives them PC to stop those men. story tomorrow about getting stop with a load of A's and T's, this is good one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thunder on the Plains of Colorado on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 12:47 am:

Mack. We get a call, at least, once a month from our local Law Enforcement Agencies. They ask if we have recently received a load of__________.

All of our loads are handled in such a way, that we can prove rightful ownership. (I'm a hauler, not a buyer) But even certain aspects of our loads, are subject to inspection. Railroads scrap their own stuff for example. So if anything railroad related is hauled in, the load is impounded. Beer kegs, are another no no.
Motor vehicles. NOT without a clear title....

Sadly, for those of us, like myself, who collect rust, steel prices are high. All of mine is either bolted down, or in the game room. Well, that is, unless its the Keepers bike. That has its own "Shrine" in the living room.

Its real easy for a guy to "obtain" enough steel, to make a living. My point here is, protect your stuff. There are people out there, who will take it! They dont care!

Man Traps and Booby Traps, Laser Guided Shotguns, well, uhmmmm..... Thats up to you as a land/home owner. I cant say that I condone that type of behavior. Its not that I dont believe in protecting your property, I just cant suggest that it be done in that manner. As for myself, I'm covered.

For those of you, who have parts stored outside, just think of yourself as a target. There are people who are willing to take your stuff. As far as the Police checking every load that goes to the scrap yards? Its not likely Gents. However, it is likely that the scrappers have been contacted, like we are, if something askew is about. If somebody steals a bunch of copper pipe, for example, we'll likely be getting a call from the Police. Thats why when we dump a load, we are video taped in, then out. The load is inspected before we are allowed to leave. And our ID is submitted before payment.

Gentlemen, things are different now, with the current economic situation. Please take the time to protect yourself from those who have no respect for the law. This situation, is truely a viable concern.

Mike. I dont know what to say. I'd be livid, if that happened to me. So I understand your frustrations. Anything more that I offer here, will probably just upset you even more.

Gentlemen, as a group, we need to watch out for each other. Let everybody on these forums know, that something was stolen. It MIGHT show up on Craigslist, but sadly, I think Mikes stuff probably wont wind up as a nice Speedster.

Again Mike, I feel for you. Gentlemen, protect your stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 01:29 am:

My respects to you as well John. I read most threads daily and I post on those that I am compelled to, why shouldn't I read this one...you have. So are you now the Model T police? You have apparently taken over your local police departments detective unit and the prosecutors office to fight your local battles, must be a natural to take over here. I have read some of your posts at ad nauseam. Having said that, I apologize for my flip response. In the south many people that disagree or have something derogatory to say about someone end their comments with "bless their hearts"... As far as my Model T, I bought it because I've wanted one for about 45 years. I engaged in this forum to learn about my T and make a few T friends...well I've made one or two and quickly learned that if you are not "one of the I know everything about this hobby good old boys" you just don't matter unless you pander to them, which is I guess, is a right of passage. I discovered Paula and Gator Gould from a member that never posts on this forum and they have been wonderful mentors to me...real Model T people. So I guess in a round about way to answer your accusation that I am not really into Model T's...well, you are some what correct, I am not a fanatic...I enjoy my machine with family and friends, I guess if that doesn't satisfy your parameters then I am guilty in your court. Thank you John...Bless your heart.

Thank you Seth, the snow was fleeting here but it WAS snow by gingies! All the best to you and yours...20's tonight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 01:44 am:

Thunder, please do not take anything I, or anyone else here has said, personally. It sounds as if
Colorado has some good laws to apply to this type of theft. Califunny certainly does not. We have lots of laws to prevent leaves from blowing out of the back of your pickup. And we have many angry homeowners that complain about being hassled for littering with those leaves by the same officers that won't do anything about the theft and vandalism in their neighborhoods.
I, and many of my friends have also been victims of the theft of antique car parts. A good friend of mine lost a nearly complete 1919 Cole chassis with a rebuilt original Cole V8 engine. He was getting ready to replicate a Cole race car. The only person I know that got a significant portion of his stuff back did so because he spent hours going through piles and barrels of junk at several scrap metal buyers.
Also, I started helping my dad haul scrap metal and cardboard and newspapers when I was about six. I hauled my first load solo when I was 16 and I don't know how many dozens of loads since. Those loads were almost always being hauled in a 20 to 40 year old pickup. I can't recall ever being stopped. And only a few times was I asked to show ID where I sold it.
Clearly, the system is broken in Califunny, and I am sure many other states. It sounds as if Texas and/or Colorado could be more to my liking. Are you looking for new residents? Is cheap housing available (I like to be a ways out of town and need parking for at least ten vehicles). Is there good work for a broken-down over-educated has-been who has dabbled a little in almost everything?

Anyway, Thunder, my apologies. And to anyone else that may be offended by my postings or thread drift, I am sorry. But, where else can I spout my drivel?
About time to drop this one and get back to threads about enjoying and restoring our model Ts.

Happy Holidays, and drive carefully, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 01:51 am:

Bob,

Merry Christmas & Bless your heart.

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 02:13 am:

John.
Merry Christmas to you as well...did you turn around the "bless your heart" on me? Dang! I was not prepared for that...lol...no hard feelings John, you know the truth about opinions...everyone has one. Lets agree to disagree....
Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 02:23 am:

Bob,

Thanks, and I was about to PM you and ask the same thing. No Hard feelings here either. I guess you and I are earning that right of passage. :-)

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roy Grenman on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 05:48 am:

Hi Guys, this string is a wake up call as I have no gun but it brings to mind what is going to happen if the Muslin law ever get here and if you catch the thief you just cut off the hand and if he comes back then cut off the other one and you could have a second hand store.... I know, its sick but sounded good to me... Roy Grenman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 06:06 am:

I think we're all pretty wound up over this and it's bleeding out into this topic.

Just last month my neighbor lost the radiators on two of his tractors and all the wheel weights. Other people around have been losing property in similar ways. Nothing is safe anymore. You can lock it up, chain it down, hide it in a secured shed, you're still not safe.
One of the guys on another forum I belong to had one of his military vehicles stolen for scrap, bout made everyones blood boil too
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/conversations/25074-deuce-stolen-recovered-now-will -my-first-bobbed.html

Tell you what.....Mike, if you can provide me with some numbers to likeley recycling centers in your area and out of state I will help by calling them to see if they took in anything fitting your descriptions (I assume you've already made a list with numbers, etc?). I work 7-7, wed-wed and at the begining and end of my shift I will make calls to these centers to touch base with them. I am willing to help.

I bet if we subdivided the search area into regions and all did this as a team when our stuff goes missing or a car gets stolen we would nail these morons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 09:12 am:

I cant read the link.
I haul a few loads of scrap a year,mostly crap I have bought for parts and got what I needed and getting rid of the rest.my id and tag numbers are taken down and I dont mind a bit.
In NC if the car is over a certain age no title is needed to haul it in for scrap.No vins are took or anything.I watched a 55 ford pickup get hauled in,pictured,crunched up by the grabs,the man got his money after his license were photocopied and he was on his way.Now,granted,If it was legit junk,and not stolen,that was fine.BUT if it was stolen,and the owner came to get recover,what is left? A picture?The 140 bucks the other guy got for the frame and bare body?All this security at the junk yard aint worth a hoot to help recover the stolen items.It only allows for the owner to know who took it and pray for justice.

Here is a issue no one seems to think about.
Local goverments love "cleanup" legislations and harraseing old car collectors and such.Just read the Sema website about all the laws regarding old salvage cars. The goverment takes pride in calling the collectors stuff abandoned,worthless junk takeing away from the neighbor hood.
So when a theif comes along and takes it away,the goverment aint going to concern thier selves alot with the theft because they didnt want the owner to have the stuff anyhow.So if collectors dont take matters into thier own hands by whatever means,there wont be any justice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 12:20 pm:

Now that I have a free moment, let me explain. I don't claim that punishment is no deterrent. Of course it is, especially for people of normal IQ. But no matter how Draconian you make it, the less certain it is the less it deters. Crime is primarily an occupation for stupid people. Add to that the considerable likelihood that a particular offense will go unpunished, and you have an incentive for bad behavior by people who aren't man enough to do right.

Is capital punishment a deterrent? Probably, for first degree murder. But in a discussion of the crime rate it's a red herring. Let's look at one small town as an example. In Arkansas City, Kansas, population about 12,000, the murder rate is probably less than one per year. But the thieves, vandals, rubber check writers, batterers, and other lowlife trash are busy every day, degrading everybody's quality of life. We could set up a guillotine in front of city hall for murderers and sell tickets for the public to watch the heads roll, but what deterrence would that provide for the aforementioned thieves, vandals, etc.? The answer is zero. In New York and other places it's been demonstrated that serious pursuit and prosecution of minor crimes has improved the quality of life by reducing the rate of those minor crimes while also reducing the incidence of major crimes. I stand by my contention that increasing the likelihood of punishment, preferably including real restitution, is a better deterrent than Draconian measures, no matter how emotionally satisfying those may be for some of us.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 01:14 pm:

Good point Steve.Now,if we can fiqure out how to improve our chances of achieveing increased punishment,and restitution from the crooks..
I know 1 fellow that had a pile of green house frames from his fathers bussiness stolen a while back was able to get some of them back because he was friends with the junk yard owner and had witiness and proof of ownership.But the money the drug addic was supposed to pay after his state sponsered year of food and cable tv,He is yet to see a dime.Dang shame.Oh yea,after giveing the sheriff a earfull about it takeing 4 times of catching the guy in the act of stealing before a arrest was made,got him a tax audit a couple months later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 01:17 pm:

In FL when you haul scrap into the yard, they get your license plate number, description of your truck, and upon leaving the scale house you get a ticket to take to the cashier's window where you have to present ID and give a thumb print before being paid.

From my understanding come first of the year in FL you will no longer get paid in cash, you will be paid by a check sent thru the mail also a 1099 will be sent along with the check.

Unsure if this is a nationwide thing or a statewide deal only.

I haul junk cars across the scales a couple times a week, and in the process have found lots of old Ford parts by looking at the other loads waiting to scale in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz Knoxville,TN on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 01:29 pm:

Not scrap related but law enforcement, we had a lady here in town who was shot and killed at an ATM by a 20year old who had been caught and released by Judges 14 times for armed robbery, drug pos and other ,the cops are not to blame and are frustrated that this is allowed to happen,they blame overcrowding ,not enough people and on and on,the judges her in e TN are all conservatives.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Orlando Ortega Jr., Portales, New Mexico on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 01:50 pm:

I believe that a large amount of this crime is due to the incredible and terrible meth epidemic we are facing in the United States. Meth addicts will go to any level of crime to get their next fix.

Unfortunately we are seeing vicious crimes throughout America and a growing number in rural communities. Communities are seeing an increase in crimes of copper theft from farms, construction sites, businesses and homes. Scrap metal and anything of value, home burglaries, and vehicle thefts are quick and easy ways for thieves to make a fast dollar for their next purchase of meth.

My community is not prone to this type of criminal activity but by working with police and having neighborhood watches it has helped keep it to a minimum. Talk to your neighbors and ask them to help in keeping an eye out for suspicious activity. We have to watch out for each other.

Always be alert of your surroundings and if you suspect something out of the ordinary donít hesitate to call the police immediately. Let the police come and check it out. Itís better to be safe than sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 02:55 pm:

Some scrap metal guy stole my stuff and when i went to the metal yard and pointed out my stuff to him he just laughed at me. Now brass markers (the sqaure kind with words on) are going missing from around town. So i thought if normal fear did not work an unnatural fear might but unsure of how to make it believeable


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 07:39 pm:

Guys - Thanks for all of the support and offers for help. I did spend most of the day on Friday contacting scrap yards to no avail. Just learn from my mistake, don't leave anything out in plain view. Lock your sheds etc. even though my shed was locked with a brass lock that they took. The best thing you can do though is like I said don't leave stuff out where it can be seen.


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