ALL WELDERS - l need your expert opinion.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2010: ALL WELDERS - l need your expert opinion.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 - 11:03 pm:

OK, l have attached some pics below in the hope that an answer as to my problem can be made.

Problem - cast iron block, water left in water jacket way to long, all 4 exhaust ports now corroded thru.

I want to rebuild the internal passages, weld up the exhaust port holes and correct the top of the block where that same water has eaten into that area.

I would love to have this block up and running again in this restoration BUT will await your generous thoughts and a proceedure in which to bring this block back to life.

I started this posting last week but now l have pics to assist in your appraisal.

Cheers in advance for your opinions.

David.
















Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 - 11:37 pm:

Where there is one hole there a hundred you can't see. Cast can be brased but it takes a person who knows what they are doing. Your block is in no way a solid block. Not to mention what the running stress will do to such a thin piece of iron. I hear what your saying about keep and reusing the block but your only going to end up with a money pit and lots of heartache.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 - 11:59 pm:

I've had to restore some sad parts over 40 odd years but I think this block is now a good base for a coffee table...Kerry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 12:10 am:

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/1/91556.html

David, check out the web discussion above. It is long, but it will give you some insight into the process of saving early, but badly damaged, cast iron.
Portions of the water jacket would have to be cut away so that the repairs could be made. The water jacket would then have to be welded back on. The engine may not be reliable because heat expansion and contraction from running could tend to cause future cracks. All that said, I, being a Horseless Carriage Club type of person, would like to see that repaired. The truth is, though, if you intend to drive the car much, it would probably be better to get another block. Put that one on a shelf and keep it with the car. Don't junk it. Early blocks are only going to get more rare. I have some horseless carriage parts that need to be welded and plan to start practicing cast iron welding in the spring. I have some later model T parts to practice on first. If you weren't so far away, I might try to talk you out of that block.
Happy New Year! And drive carefully, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.Woods on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 12:11 am:

Midwest Cylinder Head Service repairs all kind of blocks and heads. They've done a Ricardo and a Simmons for me and repaired a 1913 block of a fellow forum reader that I referred to them, but my repairs and the 13 block repair were just cracks; not dime, penney, or nickle sized holes! Even if your block could be repaired, judging on what I paid, you'd have a fortune (literally) tied up in the block; probably more than what you could buy a 13 block for and have it professionally rebuilt. I personally wouldn't waste my money on a block in that condition, even if it had sentimental value to it. I know good 13 blocks aren't common, but someone's got to have one in better shape than yours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Saltsgaver on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 12:11 am:

Agree, this block is now a conversation piece in your garage (or living room if your single or have a very understanding significant other).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 12:30 am:

You need a block, plain and simple.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 12:51 am:

Thanks for those thoughts, have another block, one week younger than this one above, but like many old blocks also has a little work to correct it ready for use.
As long as the repair work is good and strong (small broken piece around the edge of the cam timing gear part of the casting ) then we'll have to be happy with that.

OK- ALL THAT SAID, IF YOU HAVE A GREAT FEB MARCH 1913 BLOCK SITTING WAITING FOR A KIND PERSON WHO WOULD LOVE TO HAVE IT AND USE IT WITH REGARD TO ITS AGE----THEN I'M YOUR GUY....

Email me...l just may be interested.

Cheers David Dare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry A.Woods on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 01:39 am:

David, I realize you're on the other side and hemisphere of the world from the US, so shipping your other very repairable block (from your description) to the US for repair would be costly. Look for a cylinder head or block repair company in Australia that does repair by FUSION welding. If you want to know more about fusion welding and what it is, do a seach for Midwest Cylinder Head Repair's website. It explains fusion welding and has pictures showing it being done. My two heads came back looking brand new from a company that stands behind their work, 100%, The other gent actually went to their shop before having his block repaired and was totally impressed. He was totally satisfied with their repair to his block, too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 05:02 am:

I did look at Mid West for fusion welding, l'm impressed, between that and the spray welding, l think one of my sad block problems can be cured, the other more troublesome will need more info.
David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin, Branch/Lafayette, LA on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 05:48 am:

Oh bubba....you need to pass on this one :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 07:02 am:

I'm with Tyrone on this. The block is a good solid foundation for scrap metal. Maybe you can cut the date code off and move it to another block. If you want to save part of this one, that is the only part that would not give any trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 08:32 am:

Don't scrap it. It still has value as a historic relic that helped to usher in the automotive age.

Clean up the outside really nice, then assemble it, along with an old crankshaft and crank, so it looks like a complete 1913 engine, paint it nicely, then set it on the shelf in your shop, or at your Model T clubhouse for you and others to admire. Or, you could lend or lease it to your local Ford dealership for a showroom display. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 09:27 am:

lol Jim, Yes it could be part of a new Lend/Lease program to the Russans


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Anderson on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 10:06 am:

Hello David: There is a welder in River Falls Wis. that can repair that block. He uses many types of welding to repair damaged blocks, spray welding is just one of them.

He is very very good, but he is expensive. I can get you the phone number if you like.

He has brought back to life a "T" waterpump engine and early 1912 block just to name a couple.
Gary in MN


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 10:18 am:

There used to be a place here in Mulberry, FL called Metal Coat that had a process of spraying molten metal to build up worn surfaces. If you can find a place that could do something like this, and money were no object, it may be worth a try. Perhaps you could use high temp plaster of paris in the valve port cavities to provide a surface over which the moltem metal could be be builtup from inside the water jacket. I like your very admirable attitude of exhausting all posibilities to save this engine, before throwing in the towel. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 10:38 am:

If money is no object it can be fixed... But if money is no object, a better block would still be a better choice.

My opinion is that if you can find a good bare '13 block and have it shipped to you for under $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 you will probably be better off than trying to fix this one.

Get an early 1918 block. Grind the front off of the #8 to make it a #3, change the serial number, and tap out the freeze plugs to take pipe plugs. Use correct '13 parts for everything else, then drive your T and be happy for a couple years until a proper '13 block comes along!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 10:51 am:

Display is a good idea, maybe a cutaway display engine

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen-Central Minnesota on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 11:23 am:

These guys could fix that block; their reputation is impeccable: http://www.castmetalwelding.com/index.html

But, that block is so far gone that I'm sure the bill would make you wonder if you wouldn't be better off buying a whole '13 Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 11:30 am:

If you have a wire welder, give it a shot. Playing with a cracked head, I made some pretty decent looking welds. You don't have much to lose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Dudley on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 12:37 pm:

Boat Anchor for sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Oder on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 12:49 pm:

Here is some Nickel 55 stick rod effort on something easy to get to. Not a commercial practicality since no one would pay for the time involved.

Also entirely unsuited for an engine block that not only sees thermal cycling, but gets vibrated all the time it is being used.GK cover


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 02:18 pm:

get a good die grinder, cut our a retangular piece with the 1913 on it and transplant it into the side of a good block and be done with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John A Kuehn on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 03:10 pm:

That block is just got to many thin places you cant see besides what you can see.
Even if you could get to some of the places to weld the internal water jacket is to thin and deterioted to try to repair. I would get another block if it were mine.
Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 04:42 pm:

David, There's a place in Lilydale that imports mustangs and parts etc, 18 mths ago I had a bare block sent over through his agent in the US and only cost me $165.00, so if you are lucky enough to find one and need some details, email, maybe ask the NSW forum if any blocks are about as well, less chance of it being cracked if a local motor...Kerry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 05:20 pm:

Thanks everyone, now l am loaded with heaps of ideas, scrap it, fix it, display it, l'm currently looking at an other block and will advise back when l have the block crack tested prior to useage.

Thanks again.....still would like to fix it though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White, Sheridan, MI on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 05:33 pm:

Best use I can think of:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Moore on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 08:25 pm:

"get a good die grinder, cut our a retangular piece with the 1913 on it and transplant it into the side of a good block and be done with it."

The best answer there is and will be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Faccin - Crystal Falls, Michigan on Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - 08:34 pm:

Gary,

Nice use of an extra T block! :-) I like it!

John


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