Inspection Plate removed on engine

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Inspection Plate removed on engine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Garrison - Fairfield Illinois on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:06 pm:

I removed the inspection plate to look at the connector rods. I have noticed a small but noticeable knock in the engine and thought it would be a good idea to check out the rods. What i have found is that 1 rod connector has more "play" on the crankshaft than the others. My question is what is the correct procedure to get the correct gap? These have shims in them that can be removed but how much??

Thanks
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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:13 pm:

Purchase some Plastigage, the one to three thousanths stuff, and remove one shim at a time, one side then the other, until you get about 2 thous clearance. You place a thread across the face of the cap and tighten it down. The thread will be squished to a certain thickness, thats how you tell you have the right clearance. Be sure to assemble the cap the same way it came off the car. Best to mark it before removal. I bet there are instructions and perhaps a video on how to use Plastigage on the internet, perhaps on YouTube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Garrison - Fairfield Illinois on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:20 pm:

Thats what i thought, but i didn't know what clearance should be? What should the rod bolts be torqued at?

THANKS
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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Mittrucker on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:27 pm:

The clearance should be about 2 thousandths .002 and the connecting rod bolts should be torqued at 35 ft. pounds. If the cotter pin hole does not line up remove the nut and file it a little and try again until you can insert the pin.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Garrison - Fairfield Illinois on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 07:54 am:

Whats the BEST method for sealing the inspection bolts? I have tried dental floss around the bolts and then thread bolts up, still leaks some.

Thanks
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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 09:02 am:

Brad -- 5/16" Sealing Washers work great. Dorman makes them. They are available at Home Depot and other places.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 09:20 am:

First make sure that the bolt holes in the inspection cover have not been dished/cupped out from over torqueing in the past. You may need to place the cover on a hard surface like a small anvil and gently tap the metal at the bolt holes flat like they were originally. I squirt a small amout of the black RTV gasket stuff under each bolt head then install to stop any leaks. Works good for me! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush, Portland Oregon on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 10:20 am:

I did the black RTV, so far so good! Any small drips from the inspection cover are minor in comparison to any other leaks! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 10:56 am:

Try useing a 1/2 X 1" peice of thin aluminum foil, the cheap stuff, pull the rod cap remove some shims put the foil in the cap with no wrinkles. Bolt it up and crank over the engine WITH THE SWITCH OFF. If it turns over pull the cap and remove more shims. Do this until the motor is hard to turn. Then remove the foil and bolt up the cap, it should turn freely if you do it right. If it's too tight add more shims and recheck with foil and then without. Call if you have questions, Bob 903 824 1949


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 11:29 am:

Bob, what a unique way to do this job. I bet it works too. Has that old time "make do with what you have" feel about it as well. I wonder what the thickness of that foil is? Seems the cheap foil you buy now feels a lot thinner than it did when I was younger.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode - Onalaska, WA, USA on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 11:51 am:

The Reynolds wrap in our kitchen measures about 0.00075" thick. I'm sure there are other grades/thicknesses.

It seems that most shoot for about 0.0015" on the rods.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 01:24 pm:

I agree. If you are going to go shade tree then for heavens sake make sure the thickness of whatever you use is correct. I've heard of folks using newspaper but the same rule applies.
I dont understand the lure of homemade remedies when you can easily do the job right with stuff that's available and inexpensive. Not meant to offend, just my honest opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 05:09 pm:

You guys are probably right, Plastigage is the way to go. If the crank is perfictly round and pollished, if you get every bid of oil out of the bearing, and if you don't distort the Plastigage when tightening the cap. I've used both wtih good results, but in a used motor I just like to feel the clearance. But thats just me


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Garrison - Fairfield Illinois on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 07:48 pm:

I did a plastigage method today and went for .002 and thought i did a pretty good job on two rods and then went to hand crank over to do the other two rods and she was so HARD to turn i said this will not work! So i hit the "abort" button and now i will go for a bigger gap. If you could describe a feel method would it be a "easy" side to side movement of the rod or should a person have to grab it and put some effort into to movement of the rod?

I will have to order some rod shims and start fresh on this job...

Thanks
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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 07:53 pm:

I fit bearings the same way as Bob, but I use a 3/4" square piece of thin paper for the "gauge". A piece of a receipt from Wal-Mart or Lowe's is just right, about .0015". I tried Plastiguage on one engine but didn't get as good results as I do by setting them "by feel". Maybe I'm just not smart enough to use that new-fangled space-age Plastigauge, but setting them by feel works every time. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 07:59 pm:

Brad -- The .002" measurement shouldn't be too tight. I shoot for .0015-.002" and can feel a little resistance, but they wear in pretty quickly when you run the engine. Often you will need to make some shims from aluminum foil to get them just right, since the brass ones are too thick for some situations. (Be sure to leave your spark plugs out when doing the fitting.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 08:07 pm:

Brad -- I just re-read your post and want to say that the side-to-side movement of the bottom end of the rod is not what we're talking about here. The "feel" method involves what you feel when turning the engine with the crank, not the side-to-side movement. When properly fitted, the rods will take a little tap to move them, not slide easily by hand.

I still don't understand why your engine was difficult to turn by hand with .002 clearance unless the crankshaft is out of round or the spark plugs were in the head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charles kenneth gibbard on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 09:14 pm:

Are you checking the crank diameter,to make sure its not out of round?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Garrison - Fairfield Illinois on Sunday, May 29, 2011 - 08:33 am:

"take a little tap to move them, not slide easily by hand"

Mike,

That will help me a bunch. I will give it a shot and see what happens.

Thanks
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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Smalley on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 08:56 am:

Brad, did you remember to torque the rod bearing bolts to 35 foot pounds with the plastigage installed? Also the plastigage should be laid across the full width of the bearing in case the crank journal has uneven wear from side to side. Charles also has a good point about the crankshaft rod journal being out of round.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Brown on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 01:45 pm:

I've used plastigage for years on modern cars but i couldn't get a trustworthy reading on the model T. Plastigage kept showing me .001 to .0015 clearance when the rod was still loose(moved easily by hand). The Ford shop manual says that the rod should move only with the tap of a hammer.
What did work successfully for me was to use a piece of newspaper. Now, i didn't just pick up the first piece of paper I found. I miked the paper with a 0-1 inch mike and found the the newspaper was .003 thick. I was a littly leary about tightening up the clearances much tighter than that, although 002 thousands would have probably been ok, but I couldn't find any thing .002 thousands thick to use. I started removing shims until I could feel strong resistance on the crank to turning the engine. When I got through. every rod was snug and needed a tap of the hammer to move them sideways.
Previously, I had worked for hours on one rod with plastigage and could not get satisfaction. With the newspaper, i was able to complete all four in maybe a couple of hours taking my time.
I don't know why the plastigage didn't work but it must have to do with the non-precision id of the rods and the crank being a little flat although this engine was recently rebuilt with a 10/10 crank and new babbit etc. Anyway it worked. I think what is most important is to:
1. Take your time
2. Think
3. If it don't make sense, don't do it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Saltsgaver on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 03:01 pm:

Brad, are you a member of the Egyption Car Club in Fairfield? Those guys can give you a lot of pointers. Of course, my 2 favorite model t guys are now gone....Kenny Griffith & Dave Johnson.

I'm just west of Geff. I should be working on my 26 so I can drive it to work, but it's too hot out & I'm lazy. Feel free to give me a call any time if you have questions. I'm the only Saltsgaver in the book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Garrison - Fairfield Illinois on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 06:38 pm:

Mike

No I am not a member of that car club, but was a good friend of the late Kenny Griffith. He showed me a lot about the building of my Model T.

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