Lifted the front seat cushion and found this hinged cover. It's made of masonite. Has a hole for the tank filler and a smaller hole to stick a finger in to lift it up. (1st pic closed, 2nd open partially & propped up). There are also 2 small wood walls or partitons. One on each side of the tank (3rd shot. Not too clear). Normal or someone's idea of improvements?

You sure that is masonite?

I don't know about the rest of it, but my wood cab TT has little wood "walls" like the ones in your picture. When I got the truck they contianed wood wheel chocks, extra spark plug, tire patch kit, tools, etc. They're just handy little storage compartments, as far as I know. There would be no other purpose I can think of.

The seat frame lids that I've seen have been both hinged wood and metal. Langs lists them as 1915 to 20. Masonite was a home replacement,and the gas cap hole was much smaller. It is used to support the seat springs.

Bob

Charlie,

Bottom Line Up Front: I believe the lid over the oval gas tank and the compartments on each side of the gas tank were most likely added by a previous owner. Disclaimer – Ford could and sometimes did make small runs of things to see if he liked them or not.

Rationale:

I am assuming the photo is from your new 1923 touring that has the 1924-25 style steering column bracket dash but still has the earlier 1923 low cowl and no radiator apron below the radiator that you recently purchased. Photos of your new car where discussed on the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/216554.html?1307640209 . If that is not the car we are discussing please clarify what type of car it is and also the year etc.

Note it appears the car has an oval gas tank which fits with the 1923 car you recently purchased. At: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/A-B.htm Bruce has the following about the bodies:

1921-1922
Generally similar to 1919 except as noted.
TOURING
A new body design with lower seats of much more comfortable design was announced on October 15, 1920, and is properly called a “1921” model. Rear quarter panel is now one piece instead of the two-piece design used since 1913. Upholstery tack strips were now inside the body panels, extending above them for the tacks. Metal cap on arm rests was now somewhat narrower. Top iron support post now came through the quarter panel instead of the “L” bracket used earlier. Instrument panel standard on all models, starter or not, in 1922. Oval gas tank was standard. The lid over the gas tank was discontinued.

Therefore, I believe the lid over the gas tank was added by a previous owner.

I also looked at a few other 1920-1925 bodies that showed the front seat compartment. I did not see a compartment on both sides of the gas tank in those. I also looked for the bracket and/or the hole the bracket would have been mounted to from the seat frame to the wall and I did not see any with a bracket or a hole for the bracket. Based on that small sample size I would speculate that it was added to your 1923 by a previous owner. It looks like they did a good job and that they would be functional for holding tools etc.

Respectfully submitted,

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Thanks for the info Hap. Always informative (and extensive)! Yes, it's the new '23. Now here's another worm in the apple so to speak: I just came from a local car show and there were afew T's there. Was speaking to a fellow with a '23 coupe. Asked him about the cover and the compartments. He had the compartments but no tank cover and no holes for hinges! Could the compartment "walls" have been kits? His looked exactly like mine.

Richard: the hinged tank cover is definitely masonite.

Hello All,

My 21' Runabout has a metal lid over the gas tank. It looks to be original but I'm not an expert.

Thanks,

Orlando

Charlie,

If the coupe you looked at had the gas tank under the seat it was a 24 model year as the 23 model year had it in the trunk. The 24 - 25 model year coupes had a wooden "tool box board" on each side of the oval tank. Nailed to the top of these was a cardboard cover. A hole in the cover allowed access to the filler on the tank. These cardboard covers were not hinged - they were nailed in place.

Dave S.

For David – thank you for the additional details on the 1924-25 Coupe wooden tool box board on each side of the oval gas tank under the front seat and the cardboard nailed over the gas tank.

For Orlando -- From reviewing some pictures you shared in the past your 1921 body was produced by Beaudett based on the body number having the “B” stamped on the right front metal riser. It also continued in the straight windshield, wide arm rest, and top rest coming down from the top or the seat rather than the later style through the body panel. There is a good chance that Beaudett was still attaching the metal gas tank covers to the bodies they supplied to Ford even though I would believe your car has the oval gas tank under the seat lid.

Note at:

OCT 12, 1920 Acc. 575, Box 14, #819, Ford Archives

T-1303B (oval) gas tank specified for all chassis except for the Coupe and Sedan.
(other items also mentioned but we wanted the oval gas tank date)

We know from the picture on page 238 in the "Ford Methods and Ford Shop" book that the bodies back then had the gas tank lids on them prior to being mounted see the photo below from Bruce’s “Model T Comprehensive Encyclopedia” used by permission to promote the hobby and available at http://mtfca.com/encyclo/mccalley.htm [note is also contains all the on-line encyclopedia information plus a lot more. I’m not that smart – but I enjoy reading a lot of those things.]



And from the forum posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/214512 we see a 1915-1916 touring body standing up in the background. It clearly has the metal cover over the rear seat and would also have had the metal cover over the front seat.



You can help us confirm that or correct that. When you have a chance please take a look at your car and see if it has the hinges attaching the gas tank to the rear of the seat frame. Or if it has the evidence that the hinges used to be there. See: for additional photos of the metal verses the wooden seat lid frame hinges.

My current theory [guess] is the seat lids went away on both the touring and roadster bodies when the body went to the new style with the thinner arm rest and the top rest going through the body panel rather than down from the top of the seat. But that needs to be confirmed or corrected. Also note there would have been overlap when both styles of bodies were being used. And the roadster changed a little later than the touring for the transition to the new body style with the lower seats and narrower arm rests.

Any of you who have a 1921-23 touring or roadster -- please take a look at the front seat and let us know if it is the older 1915-1920ish with the higher seat and wider arm rests or the later 1920ish with the lower seat and more narrow arm rest. And of course if it did or did not have a metal seat cover (please check for evidence of hinges -- those rivets and half the hinge will stay there for a long time after the lid was removed.

Respectfully submitted,

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You know today you can pickup a JC whitney catalog and get racks and holders and such for cars and trucks to put behind seats and so on.This could very well be a accessory that could be bought and installed by the owner to hold tools and such.

Hap and All,

Yes, my 21' Runabout has the oval gas tank. I've taken a couple of photos of the hinges. Everything is intact and working properly.

Thanks,

Orlandoo

Mack -- you could be correct that it was an aftermarket kit. But if it is identical to the one supplied by Ford for the 1924-25 coupe, I suspect a previous owner obtained one from a coupe or for a coupe and installed it. Of course at this point we do not really know if it is identical or similar to the one used in the 1924-25 coupes.

Orlando -- thank you for checking and posting the photos. Your car is one of those "Fossil Records" I like to refer back to. No rush, but when you get a chance would you confirm the back part of the hinge on the gas tank is NOT under the gas tank lid but is actually pointed toward the rear of the car like the photo below?





Above is photo of an original hinge and the reproduction by Joe Mazor. [Note Joe does a great job of reproducing those hinges – see the thread at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/12369.html for additional details. And remember –he does this to help out – he has a regular job, family, etc. ]

Respectfully submitted,

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