Non-T -- Edison Diamond Disc phonograph

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Non-T -- Edison Diamond Disc phonograph
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 12:59 pm:

We all have other period related hobbies. Going to get a console Edison & need some helpful hints on transporting.

Could the console lay on it's back side without damaging the mechanism ? Should the console be transported upright ? Any packing needed to stabilize innards ??

Thansk in advance

Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 01:07 pm:

I've never owned an Edison machine but whenever I have transported Victor Victrolas, I remove the works, pick-up, gooseneck on the tone-arm, etc. and pack those items separately. It makes the cabinet lighter and easier to move.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Saltsgaver on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 01:18 pm:

I have a 1918 model & I would recommend putting some packing material in around the turntable & works (after removing the head) & then strapping the lid down to hold it closed. If you've oiled it there is the risk of the oil coming back out the oil tubes & creating some stains when you lay it on it's side. The safest way is to leave it upright.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 01:26 pm:

Bob - Here's a good link to the innards of a Diamond Disc machine. All Edison machines with internal horns pivot those horns during operation along with the reproducer arm. My 2¢ - keep the console vertical, and carefully pad the horn and reproducer to keep them from slamming against their end stops. That's the way I moved my Edison Amberola 30, which has the same basic sound mechanism, but is a lot smaller than your new machine. Congrats, and enjoy! - Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 01:43 pm:

Unlike Victrolas, whereby the needle tracks in the groove, the stylus of the Diamond Disc sits very lightly in the groove of an Edison record as the heavy arm tracks across the record, resting on a very fine toothed gear, which moves the arm across the record. If you lay the phonograph on it on its' side you need to make sure the arm is isolated from this gear, or you could cause some very severe damage to the gear. It would be better if you could secure it in an upright position but you still need to place some sort of cushion such a foam between the gears so that, in transit, the fine teeth of toothed gear are not stripped off or damaged. The arm should be secured so that it cannot move either way. Also, the turntable is held in place by gravity. If you tilt it on it's side, the turntable can fall off the spindle and damage the arm the reproducer and inside of the lid. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 01:50 pm:

PS. Remove the reproducer from the arm for safe keeping during transportation. You can keep the arm stationary by stuffing towels on each side of the horn, but you also, still need to isolate the arm gear from the motor gear so they cannot damage eachother. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Mittrucker on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 02:14 pm:

Pack around the horn to keet it from moving around in the cabnet. All diamond disc machine horns can pivot inside the cabnet. Remove the reproducer, turntable, winding crank, and cabnet grille to prevent damage. Also remove any records that may be inside the cabnet. The horn moves up and down to engage and disengage the feed screw and to raise and lower the stylus on the record. Inside the cabnet attached to the horn rod you will see a piece with teeth on it called the feed rack above a very fine screw called the feed screw. The feed rack can be lifted up and off the feed screw and a rubber band should be used to hold the feed rack up to prevent it from engaging with the feed screw.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek- Brookshire, Texas on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 04:45 pm:

PS- Don't ever store your Diamond Disc records in high humidity or get them wet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush, Portland Oregon on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 12:19 am:

When I brought mine home I took the works out and removed the records. The case is still heavy but manageable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt- Oregon on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 01:36 am:

If it is a short trip leave the mech in the cabinet. They are a pain to pull and are heavy. The advice you have received is sound. Remove the reproducer and be careful of the diamond stylus. It is out in the open and the reproducer is heavy especially so if it is a dance reproducer. You don't want to chip the stylus. If it is a console it may play long play records that are 24 mins per side and 12 inch records even longer (40 mins), true microgroove. Many consoles were set up that way and if so the long play reproducer may be there.
I'd look for a 78 adapter. BTW if it has records look for 52000 series. Worth a lot of money. And yes do not let the get the records wet.
I have the last DD record made Oh Suzanna (Vaughn DeLeath) and also Cruel Back Biting Blues on DD.
Some very good stuff but hard to find. Most DD are standard fare. BTW the late 52000 were electrically recorded and dubbed to Blue Amberola cylinder records, good stuff. I don't remember the number for when the change over occurred.
Look for white paper label records.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 03:21 am:

A picture of this Edison Console thing could be valuable for all ud ignorant that do not know for sure how they looks. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Levans, Lafayette Indiana on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 07:09 am:

Bob

I'd love to see a picture or two; what model Diamond Disc is it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 08:45 am:

I don't think I've ever see the 'Diamond Disc' machine? But if it's the size of the (teen's/ 20's era) RCA console, it's heavy and awkward.
We have one that's been in the family for generations. My daughter in Arizona asked me to go take a look at a second one that was for sale (on e-bay) locally here in Florida. It was in nice shape and came complete with leather albums of records with the RCA dog on them. Certainly worth the $300 I paid for it. I sent them all the measurements and they concluded it would fit on the back seat of their brand new Toyota 'Camry' (I think). They decided to bring the Toyota to try to save on gas costs. Aside from tightening down the 2 transportation screws on the turn table and tying down the needle arm, we tried to get in the Toyota face up, records and all. To make a long story short, we had forgotten to take into account the wheel well arc and the rear door wouldn't wouldn't open far enough to let us get it straight enough to slide into the car. They weren't leaving without it. We ended up taking the right rear door off a brand new Toyota in order to get it to slide in on the seat and then, putting it back on.
It made the trip back to Arizona just fine. My son in law took it apart, lubricated and polished everything. It looks and plays like a brand new one. His Arizona friends got a kick out of the fact that he had to take the door off the car to get it out. Moral to the story, (something that almost everybody can figure out), transport it in a pickup or better yet, in the back of a carpeted SUV.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek- Brookshire, Texas on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 09:22 am:

The Diamond Disc is another example of how a genius, even like Thomas Edison, could make some bad business decisions. His company, from what I have read, made cylinders for his cylinder players right up until the the great stock market crash though the regular 78 records and players were vastly more popular. Then he decides to make a player where his records will not play on the standard 78 players of the time without a adapter. Those of you with more technical expertise can explain this better but my take on the situation is that the needles on standard 78 players vibrate horizontally back and forth in the record grooves to produce the sound. On the Edison Diamond Disk the needle travels vertically in the grooves to produce the sound. I have one of the adaptor heads for my Diamond Disc and play both types of records thought the Diamond Discs play at a slightly different speed for good sound. The adaptor is pictured below. The Edison Diamond Disc records are thicker than the standard 78's and filled with a "saw dust" looking material. If the disc cracks or gets wet the filler material expands and ruins the record.
DD Adaptor


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick - (2) '26's - Bartow, FL on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 10:00 am:

I believe that the Edison Diamond Disc records play at 88rpm, so you will need to adjust the speed down to 78rpm if you want to play Victor records. Victor made a paper strobe disc covered with special lines and markings that you put on the spindle of the revolving turntable and the lines would appear to be standing still once the correct 78 rpm speed was attained. This paper disc can be used on the turntable of the Diamond disc if you have a needle adapter and want to play 78rpm records. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek- Brookshire, Texas on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 02:16 pm:

You can download and print your own strobe disc from this site and others...
http://www.vinylengine.com/strobe-discs.shtml


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt- Oregon on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 02:49 am:

Jim I think 80 rpm will do it.
The cylinders are 160 rpm.
DD are indeed hill and dale.
If you use an adapter you can engage the comb to move the reproducer across the record. Your 78's will appreciate that. You will have to watch and find the sweet spot. About halfway into the comb.
Victor machines without an S shaped tone arm and the DD for that matter will have 22+ degrees of tone arm error. The needle is round to start with and by the end of the record is a chisel point.
This is why many 78's sound so bad at the end of play. One needle one play.
The cylinders at 160rpm could have good fidelity. The very large concert cylinder as well.
BTW if anyone finds Pink Cylinder records let me know!! Just don't check eBay first or I won't be able to afford them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt- Oregon on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 02:50 am:

BTW I'm know in the hobby as Oldcranky (oldcranky.com) but I'm not cranky....<grin>


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 08:01 pm:

I made the trip to pick up the Edison console DD player. The phonograph & driver arrived home intact late, unpacked the phonograph this morning- assembled the grille, reproducer, turntable, crank arm------- cranked up the double spring motor & enjoyed period music from my Edison Diamond disc "re-productions",

The grille cloth & the volume control ball have to be replaced, other that that, it works & plays like a new Edison phonograph.

Wish I could add pictures, maybe later.........


Bob Jablonski


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