I purchased this Fordor from an estate (pictures) It is titled in Michigan as a 1919

vin number 3291904

However what year did they begin 4 door production?


If it is not a 1919 who will I change the title or should I even try?

A dang nice looking one. I don't know enough to tell with exactitude what year, but it is a beaut.

From the squared splash aprons,I would say it is a 1925.It does have a 1919 engine number.

It is a nice one....

Judging from the cowl vent and the spash aprons,I'd say 1925.

I have a 24 and it looks the same except for the splash aprons, so i would also say 25.
Rick

Thank you I will take your comments into the motor vehicle bureau and ask if they will change the year

It has the original interior so I figure carefully clean the interior fabric and leave it alone

David, you might be opening a can of worms trying to change the year. Not all of the DMV employees operate with much common sense. Maybe they are different where you are at.

David
Check to see if it has a frame #? My understanding is some late 1925's did.
Ron the Coilman

Very late 24 or possible 25. Either way the body is difinately that time period.
Check the engine to see if it has the one valve cover or if it has the 2 valve covers.
If it is the 2 valve compartment engine it quite probably is a 1919 engine in the car. But you do have the engine number on the title.
It depends on how pure you want to make your car.
As Doug said some some DMV employees dont have common sense to just change the date. Some will make it a big deal for nothing.
Take a picture of the car and show them what you have. Tell them this an almost 90 year old car and over the years the engine was changed with an earlier engine because T engines would interchange. SIMPLE! They could note on the title or add an attachment to it noteing it is a 25 body with a 1919 engine. If they wont do this or something similiar just let it go. There are a lot of Model T's out there in the same situation.
Good luck.

Here's your problem. In the Model T days, the engine # was the VIN #. If you broke an engine block, you simply went to a wrecking yard, bought another engine, you got a bill of sale with the engine # on it, went to the vehicle licensing center and told them you had to change the engine. This was common back then and they simply recorded the change on the title. Well, that was then, this is now. Few if any, at the DMV understand this, they think you're trying to 'pull a fast one' on them.
The frame number came about in the 26 model year, some late 25's may have one, but any way you look at this, you're going to open up a big, fat can of worms with the DMV, so don't be in a big hurry to do this.
Laws are different from state to state. Sooner or later, somebody from your state will chime in on this and give you better information on what to do, than I can.

I wouldn't be afraid to have the record corrected here in Kansas, where the paperwork is fairly straightforward, but some states are deeply in love with convoluted bureaucratic tangles that turn the simplest thing into a nightmare. Maybe some of the other Indiana guys can advise you on how to proceed.

Just file for am amended title.

We don't call our state Califunny for nothing. One guess what the advice would be for here.
The car is definitely a 1924 or 1925, probably 1925. You should tell people what it is, maybe look into changing what the title says. But you don't need to generally tell people what the title says. Until you get ready to sell it. Having a title that is not "technically" correct is a very common thing with horseless carriages and not uncommon with model Ts. The one thing you do want to make sure of is that the title numbers match the number on the car. Otherwise, at some future time, you could have serious problems. Either when selling it or with some over-zealous law enforcement officer.
Your VIN looks like about 1919. Check the left side of the engine just above the water inlet pipe connection. If that matches your title, you're good. If not, and that number isn't somewhere else on the car, you will have to try to correct it with your DMV. In some states, it would be easier to start from scratch with the bill of sale from the estate. If it was an auction or otherwise handled by a professional liquidator, that helps (usually) as they are bonded for such sales.
That looks like a great model T! Welcome! And I hope you are around for a long time. (This hobby is actually a terrible disease. I've enjoyed it for more than 40 years now. I'd rather have and drive my speedster than a Ferrari.)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

Hello David, The 1923-24 Fordor's had wooden framed doors. If your car has all steel doors it is more than likely it is a 1925. The door handles are another way of telling what year it would have been assembled. That is assuming everything on the car is original to that car. Regards, John

1923 -24 Closed Car Handles

1925 Handle from Vendor's Catalogue

Here are the door handles on my very late 24 that very well could be a 25 Coupe. It has a Oct engine no. with wood door frames.
I sold a 25 sedan that had the same type of handles and it also had wooden door frames. It had a very early 25 engine no.

David, I would have to agree your T is a 1925. Looks very nice. Rick..25 tudor

David, as has been said, that looks to be a very nice Fordor. My '25 coupe has door handles like the ones in the second picture that John Page posted, allthough I don't know that they are correct. It is a very much original car, but some things were changed in the early '60's Dave

I don't know a lot of the details on these splash aprons. If they are 1925, then the car is probably a very early 1925. The door handles are the 1924 "A" style which were used on the wood framed doors. Those carried over into the early 1925 model year. The steel doors came in during October of 1924 and the door handles changed to the "B" version. This is similar to the one John posted, except the center section is black nickel plated steel instead of rubber. The rubber insert is the "C" style handle which came out around March of 1926.

The tail light also looks to be the 1924 style with the one mounting stud on the back.

Dave S.

FYI,

The Fordor Sedan came out in December of 1922 as the 1923 model year. These were the low radiator cars. They changed to the high radiator, and added the panel under the radiator and the pieces to the front of the fenders for the 1924 model year. This phased into the 1925 model year during Oct - Dec 1925. It was redesigned some for the 1926 - 27 model years.

So it is definitely not a 1919 as Ford was not building a Fordor sedan at that time.

At first glance, I would be inclined to say a solid '25.

The 'tell-tales' to distinguish between the various years of this 'style' are:

The door handles as noted...

The structure and build of the doors...wood vs. steel...the internal structure that is. Steel inner framed doors would make it almost definately a '25

The color choice of original upholstery...the base color and stripe detail does date a closed car...some of the old written 'definitions' are not correct.

As David pointed out, the never ending question of splash apron 'style'. Just about when I am firmly convinced that the closed cars were in fact the hidden bead fender/square apron on all original closed cars, along comes a picture (such as the Shorpy Fordor a few weeks ago) where a set of curved ones are quite evident in an era correct original picture! That question then may never be answered with 100% confidence other than to say it is probable that open cars never had the square styles, and perhaps the closed were 'usually' the square style. (The answer may be as simple as Detoit built v. Branch built, Branch sourced v. a kit car from Detoit, etc.)

Supply the above answers and it locks in pretty much EXACTLY what you have