Well I finally got a the new exhaust last night and after it stopped raining, I got a chance to take Red for a really good drive around town. To give you an idea of what I have done to it so far. I rebuilt the coil box, new plugs and wire, carb rebuilt, exhaust, new tubes and tires on the rear and tubes on the front, fuel tank was cleaned and sealed.
It has always had a knock when you start it up, but on short runs when you get going it disapears. Last night once it got warmed up good it started to knock pretty loud. It didnt loose any power and pulled hills pretty good. It sounded more like something rattling inside the motor. I ran the route we took in my trailblazer and it ended up being right at 5 miles (in town driving). I checked the oil and water before I took off and both were fine. It did steam a little when i shut it off. After it cooled down I took the inspection plate off the bottem pan to check the rods. They dont seem to be loose. Could this be a carbon knock?

Some thoughts,

Drain the water then loosen the head bolts. While your faithful servant, Igor, cranks the engine over place your hand on the head. If you are hitting you may feel the head move on every revolution of the crank.

If that isn't it then pull the head off and clean your pistons AND HEAD.

I like to do the above test again without the gasket in place. My Z head is very close to the pistons at TDC.

Next check the clearance between the rod bolts and the cam. In my car that was a source of knock. Wrong bolts there can make a knock which is hard to find.

Dippers hitting the pan? Look for scratches in the pan.

If ther car has main bearings you may want to check those also. Could the knock come from magnets hitting the field coil? I haven't had a 4th main knock yet... is that possible?

TH

check the pulley on the crank under the fan belt

Pulley under the fan belt was fine.

Is it a metallic knock or more of a thud?
If the knock worsens under acceleration it might be a main bearing knock which is usually a "thuddy" sounding thing.
Are you positive it isn't coming from the transmission?

95% sure its out of the motor. more of a metallic knock

OK......does fiddling with the timing change the knocking?
Does the rhythm of the knock sound like an every revolution thing or every other revolution?
Did you happen to look up into the pistons to see if the wrist pins are tight in the rods? Or pistons as far as that goes?

When its cold it will go away with the timing, and it is on every revolution. It realy sounds more like a rattle from the front of the engine. I did look up in the pistons and the wrist pins are tight.

So when the oil thins it gets worse.
Try removing the fan belt to rule out any external causes of noise.
If it was an every other revolution clunk the only things left would be camshaft related.
While the front main shouldn't have a "rattling" sound if it was loose did you try prying up on the pulley to check for any crankshaft movement?
A chipped gear tooth would have a clicking sound rather than a rattle.

Curiouser and curiouser........

Put a length of wooden broomstick to your ear, the other end poking around the surface of the engine block while running to pinpoint the sound.

A 36" piece of 5/8 heater hose also makes a real good stethescope, George.

Brad,
I see that you don't have a leather crank holder.
My 1913 T will make a metallic knock if the crank is left down when the engine is running,and if I use the holder there is no noise(crank bushing is worn). Check the bushing that the crank goes thru to see that it isn't worn.You can also start the engine & hold the crank away from the engine & see if the noise disappears.
I hope the helps.
Scott

How about cam shaft end play or timing gear rattle!
Wilf

Good idea, Scott, as I WAS getting a rattle, too, but I immediately knew what it was.
I threw away the crank holder on mine when the strap broke.
The crank springs were missing on both T's.
I put on new springs and all is well.

Thanks for all the help. wont be able to get back to it till tomorrow. Ill let you know what I find

Brad Butler;

There are a lot of things that will sound like a knock.

1. Loose Rods are the number one cause. Find your self a long gentle down hill, get up to speed and close the throtle down and if its a rod you will hear it the loudest

2. Mains: you will hear them the loudest when under load. find a small uphill slow down or stop and then start up the hill and you will hear a main the loudest.

3. Piston hitting the head. If you can not find your knock anywhere else take the head of remove the head gasket put the head back on and crank the motor over. If the piston is hitting the head you will actually see the head moving up. You can also see witness marks in the head.

4. As some Brad Butler mentioned a loose crankshaft pulley can sound just like a loose rod.

5. Front bearing on the cam shaft. If the front bearing is worn too short they will knock.

5. Hood Clip. I had a guy bring a T into the shop with a knock. I took the T out for a spin and sure enough it had a knock just like a rod. When I got back to the shop I went to raise the hood and the forward hood clip DID NOT have a spring and the hood was slapping against the radiator.

6. Rod Bolt: If you make your own rod bolts and forget to put a bevel on the upper end they can hit the cam shaft. You must remember to turn the bevel towards the cam shaft.

7. Piston Slap: If you put new pistons in the motor and don't hone the piston pins you can get a slap that sounds just like a rod. I find at least one pin too tight in every set of pistons that I get from my supplier and must home them. If you don't hone a tight pin you WILL eventually crack the piston skirt or freeze the piston.

I am sure there are many other things that will make a knock but here are a few of them.

alright found the problem. Know I get to pull the motor and rebuild it. I hope the department will decide to lets us completely restore it know

sorry pic was to big i will get it up as soon as i get it resized

Well i switched computers and still no luck. I dropped the pan today and took another look and found that the cam bearing was broke.

Is it broke, or is it simply split in two as it should be?

it is missing most of the top half. cant see it real good in this picture but it is gone.

Cam bearings can be replaced without pulling the engine. Get a copy of the Ford Model T Service Manual.

I have a copy of the service manual. Just feel that its time to go through the motor and possible restore the whole truck.

Brad,

That's exactly how it should look. The top half is "gone" so it can clear the tappet head. The bearings are split so you can put them on the camshaft, since you can't slide them over the cam lobes.

This is not your trouble my friend, keep looking.

Well here is the other problem we discovered yesterday. This washer was in the bottem of the tranny. Did take to long to fish out but it sure was a pain in the a##

That is a transmission washer. Should not cause a knocking sound

yep your right but it doesnt belong in the bottem of the pan. We have checked everything else, Mains, rods. I attempted to pull the head yesterday and ended up breaking a head bolt. It broke flush with the top on the head atleast once i get the head off we can remove the bolts. So if its not the rods,mains or cam what else could be knocking?

Could be a wrist pin.

You say you've checked the rods and mains. What clearances did you measure?

Got the head off last night and found this. This stuff is like concrete and is a pain in the a## to scrap off.

All cleaned up just waiting for a new head gasket.