Loose front wheel bearing cup

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2011: Loose front wheel bearing cup
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E.(Bob) Blackbourn. Gautier, MS. on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 12:26 pm:

Got my new Timken roller bearings and now find the inner bearing cups are a loose fit in the hubs. I'm guessing about .002 -.004 inch. These are on the wheels that I just had re-spoked!
Any ideas on a fix for this?

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 12:46 pm:

Lawson makes a procuct that will solve your problem. It is called Presloc. This is from their web site.

Presloc is ideal for bonding cylindrical parts to pulleys, gears, rotors and shafts. Also secures bushings, bearings and housing plugs, and prevents spin-out in bearings and bushings.

Bonds slip-fits and augments press fits

Temperature range: -75F to +400F (-59C to +204C)

Set time: 15 to 30 minutes on steel; full cure in 24 hours


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E.(Bob) Blackbourn. Gautier, MS. on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 01:06 pm:

Thanks Jack. I had never heard of that. I'll give it a try.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlieB Toms River N.J. on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 01:46 pm:

JB Weld. Readily available at parts stores.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom J. Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 02:51 pm:

Loctite 601, the green stuff, is also good.

Spec sheet is here: http://www.sjgogo.com/pdf/601-en.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. J. "Art" Bell on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 02:56 pm:

LOCTITE Bearing Mount


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack J. Cole on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 03:08 pm:

I used the loctite product on the axle bearing of my 66 and so far,knock on wood,it is working fine.May not have needed it,the previous bearing may not have been on right,but I used it anyhow to insure no further issues.You better have it where you want it within a short time or it will be there where you dont want it to stay.
Be prepared to spend some money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 03:12 pm:

I have to repectfully disagree with the use JB Weld for this repair. After digging out the the pulverized chucks of JB Weld from my friend's front hub I can say that it will not withstand the pressures exerted between the bearing race and the hub.

In addition to the LocTite, and similar, repairs, which I do consider viable, you can also close up the hole in which the larger bearing cup rides. Support one side of the hub with a large chuck of steel. Hit the other side with a sizeable ball pein or machinist's hammer. Do this repeatedly as you slowly turn the wheel. A helper would be great. Don't hit too hard in any one spot or too close to the outer edge. It's the repeated strikes from many moderate blows that will close in the bore. Uneven or hard blows can make the bore go out of round. Stop periodically and test fit the cup. Since you only need .002/.004, it won't take long.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - SE Georgia on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 03:12 pm:

I use Loctite Sleeve Retainer.

I'm kinda surprised no one has come on here yet and told you to scrap it 'cause you can never be too safe.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 04:02 pm:

So glad to see this thread. I have two spindles for an axle I am rebuilding and both are slip fits...I was concerned. Now I have the answer!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis - SE Georgia on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 07:54 pm:

Steve,

We are talking about the cup fit in the hub, not the inner bearing race on the spindle. That should be a slip fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 10:28 pm:

color me stupid....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 02:32 am:

I recommend JB Weld for many things, including, sometimes, spoke repairs. But I do not recommend it for wheel bearings. I do recommend Loctite for wheel bearings. (I always have to look for which one is for the big gaps.) Also, if it is very loose, brass shim stock with Loctite all around. If it is that bad, BE SURE to closely examine the bearing surfaces for any sign of cracking, distortion or other damage. The purpose of shim stock is to provide a sacrificial wear to protect the hub. The purpose of the Loctite is to keep it from moving so it lasts even longer. For that matter, even if there is no visible wear. Carefully check the outer bearing area for any signs of distortion or cracking.

Part of your annual check should be to look at the hubs for any early signs of breaking. I've seen a few break on tour cars over the years. But usually, they will give you a warning if you look for it. It is amazing how loose (warn) an outer bearing can be, and the hub is strong and safe. It is also amazing how good a bearing fit can be on a hub that is ready to fail. It just depends on the quality of the casting, the speeds and amount of pounding against the inner parts of the hub, and a dozen other things. The trick, is to tell the difference. And then to keep the strong one from going bad.

Years ago, I grabbed a good looking hub. Rebuilt, repainted and assembled a beautiful wheel. As I sat there looking at it, getting ready to put it on my speedster (to replace a not-so-good wheel), I noticed a small flaw. As I looked closer, I saw it was leading into a barely visible crack. I took a hammer, a wide swing across where the hubcap threads on and knocked a chunk of the end off, exposing part of the bearing race. It would not have lasted long running on the car. I went and found a nice hub in my rust pile. Ruined my paint. A couple frustrating hours later, I put my wheel on the car, then touched up the paint with a brush.
Never since, have I put a wheel together, without looking at the hub, closely.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 03:30 am:

If you have over 4 thousandths wear get the hub sleeved.
There also are rings made for electric motor bearings called "tolerance rings" (or sleeves) that could work in your situation.
Using shim stock might be difficult.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 06:09 am:

I used shim stock successfully for several years until I found a better hub. It works fine but you MUST use Loctite or similar as well or it 'works' out. Using shim all round ensures that the bearing is central, assuming the wear was even!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E.(Bob) Blackbourn. Gautier, MS. on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 08:29 am:

Okay, thanks everyone. I'll try to get an exact measurement on the hub and then get some shim stock to match. I know it is going to be a fun process. :-)

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 10:13 am:

Bob,
If you measure .004" wear that equates to .002" each side. In practice, you will find it diffiult to get a .002" shim in place without it being mashed up during fitment. Better to go .001" and use loctite bearing mount between the shim, hub and bearing to make up any clearance left.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E.(Bob) Blackbourn. Gautier, MS. on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 10:23 am:

Thanks Allan. I'm going to do that plus freeze the bearing cup to shrink it a bit. Its still going to be a challenge.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robb Wolff on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 10:50 am:

Bob
I have used this product with good success.It says it is good for maximum diametrical clearance of 0.015". The spec sheet shows cure times for up to .2mm which is about .015" diametrical.

http://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/pdf/Loctite-680-technical-spec-sheet.pdf




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 11:17 am:

Unless you have a hard to find early hub, why not just get another hub? They are plentiful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Boothroyd on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 01:37 pm:

I have been looking for two good front hubs for my U.S. built 1922 Touring, in the Pacific North West and haven't found any yet.
Anyone have some for sale at a fair price?

Regards,

Steve Boothroyd


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 01:17 am:

People in the mid-west don't know what it is like in the farther west. I have at least a dozen front hubs. All of them seem to need some help. I used the last really nice hub I had a couple Ts ago. Whether it was fewer cars, or our farmers drove them further into the ground. Our rusty parts seem to be in worse shape than the ones 2000 miles East. Maybe that is why I have so much experience with "oak tree patch 'em ups". Steve, I wish I could really help you, but all I have is advice.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert E.(Bob) Blackbourn. Gautier, MS. on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 09:07 am:

The problem with getting a new hub is that it would entail rebuilding the wheel (again), and I just got finished with 4 coats of marine spar varnish and about 3 miles of masking tape! I would prefer not repeating that too soon :-)
I still think I should use some shim stock as well as the Loctite because although the Loctite may fill the gap, I'm not sure it is meant to withstand the radial load.

I appreciate everyones input.

Bob


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